Nishiki FS3: Is this one salveagable?

[incorrigible]

I bought this thru craigslist halfway across the U.S., and the seller agreed to ship it to me. Attached is a screenshot of the auction (I cut the seller's phone number out of the pic).

I phoned him. I didn't bother to explain to him that the swing arm is steel and the main frame is aluminum, but I would have if he had mentioned it. He said he was the original owner.

Based on his description and after speaking with him, I assumed he was sure that the bike was in good condition. I am now kicking myself because I should have asked him specifically to look at the head tube and the seat tube area for cracks. I have always asked this of every single other aluminum Nishiki bike that I was interested in before I commit to buy or to drive very far to see, but I ASSUMED he knew what he was talking about. Live & Learn, right? I was so excited to have found one of these bikes that I didn't do my due diligence and ask the right questions.

Personally, I find it hard to believe that the seller didn't notice the cracks, because it was the first thing I looked for when I received it, but I guess it's possible, although I'm wondering if he saw them and didn't think it was a big deal. Before I call the seller to ask him about it, I was hoping that the retrobike community might have some input as to whether or not this frame is salvageable.

I'm sure whatever fix that could be provided would be quite noticeable. Perhaps some outer "sleeves"; one welded to the top of the head tube and the other welded to the bottom, and perhaps another sleeve around the seat tube? Appearances aside, could this frame be once again safe to ride, and would it be worth the time and effort?

Thanks very much in advance to all of you.

 

[Raging_Bulls]

They can be fixed by a good framebuilder, but will require stripping the paint in the cracked areas. I'd have it stripped completely and repainted afterwards.

 

[incorrigible]

Thanks, that's reassuring.

I'll have it sandblasted before I take it to a framebuilder. I think I can have an auto paint store match the paint, and I can spray it myself.

Anyone know of a good framebuilder in SoCal that works with aluminum?

 

[matthew71]

alu

i am not so sure , it,s a 20 year old alu frame.the heat on the new welded area,s will make the old tubes weeker . i am not sure i would want to ride it ,it looks like the whole front end might snap off any time :cry:

 

[Gruff]

He's actually written in his ad that there are no" dents or defects".

They are pretty big defects so i thinks you should get back to him & get a refund or at least some money off towards the repair.

 

[ishaw]

I'd say as the advert said no major defects, whilst there may he a debate as to what constitutes major, cracks in the frame wherever they are, should be considered structural issues worthy of mentioning, and its not as though they are invisible, small is it.

I hope you manage to get it sorted one way or the other

 

[incorrigible]

He's actually written in his ad that there are no" dents or defects".

They are pretty big defects so i thinks you should get back to him & get a refund or at least some money off towards the repair.

I'll be calling the seller tomorrow, for sure. Judging by the fact that it looks like this bike has never been maintained, I get the impression that the seller isn't experienced, i.e., doesn't know what he's talking about. I agree that making a statement like that requires either the knowledge and confidence to make an educated assessment, or knowing when to recognize that he mis-stated the facts (whether intentional or not) and should compensate me for his mistake.

As for the repair, has anyone ever repaired an aluminum Nishiki frame that's this damaged? Any before and after pics? I've seen pics of Arran's FS3, but none before the repair was made.

Thanks again to all.

 

[incorrigible]

Quick update: I called the bike shop where it was packed for shipping, and the guy who packed it said he didn't notice the damage while packing the bike. Arguably, since he tasked with only packing the bike, not tuning it up or cleaning it, I can see how he might not have noticed. A typical bike shop usually only deals with newer bikes and probably only rarely encounters a cracked frame, whereas a potential buyer for a used bike (or anything that's used, for that matter), will typically check it out pretty carefully before making a decision (so in that regard, I guess I broke my own rule).

I called the bike shop guy hoping that he would have said that he DID notice the cracks and brought them to the attention of the seller, which would have given me some leverage with the seller, but that's not the case here.

When I mentioned the cracks, the bike shop guy said that their recommendation is always to destroy a cracked frame so that nobody gets hurt trying to ride it, which is a safety-driven recommendation (as well as a liability-driven recommendation, I'm sure).

When I mentioned that the seller said he bought the bike new from them in about 1997 or 1998, they said they could check to see if there was some kind of shop warranty they could honor, but they need to cross reference it with the phone number used at the time of purchase.

The guy at the bike shop who packed the bike didn't get to work until 5 PM, so after talking with him, I tried the seller's phone number, but it's after sunset in Austin right now, and it's Halloween, so who knows where he is (I won't make any blood-sucking jokes just yet). I'll try again tomorrow.

Had I known this bike was cracked, I would have passed on it, unless it was from a local seller, in which case I would have offered significantly less (am I allowed to talk dollar numbers here in this forum?). As it is, though, even if I got a discount, I'm still out the cost of packing and shipping, which almost equalled the cost of the bike. I'm hoping the seller would offer a full refund, but I doubt he's willing to do that, because then he'd be out the cost of shipping, plus the time to take it to the bike shop, the shipping depot, etc.

It's too bad I can't strap a polygraph to the heads of all sellers of bikes so I know whether or not they're sincere. I do know there are some unscrupulous folks in the world that would try to pass along a cracked bike; I've met some of them face-to-face after driving a long distance and, upon seeing the damage, pointing it out to them, and then finding out that they're still keeping it listed on craigslist hoping for an unwary buyer. Those types of people are usually the exception, though, in my experience.

In this particular case, I am blaming myself somewhat for neglecting to ask the seller to inspect the places that cracks typically occur, or even asking for better pics so I can make the determination myself. I've done that in the past and it's surprising how many people didn't see cracks until I either referred them to one of their pics, or asked them to inspect the head tube and the seat tube. I've had sellers contact me after an eBay auction has ended to inform me that they found cracks while packing a bike, and they returned my money, and others who ended their auctions early and thanked me after they noticed a crack that I pointed out to them.

I'm still hoping someone out there knows of a frame that's been damaged this much that has been repaired. Anyone?

 

[ishaw]

Someone (arran?) On here hash the very same frame repaired. Might be worth contacting him about his repair? I still think you are beating yourself up a bit about trusting someone's description/honesty. If only all sellers were honest, if they were you would not be in this situation, or would be, but knowingly.

 

[incorrigible]

Update: I emailed seller and sent him the same pics I posted here.

His response: "The bike was perfect condition prior to packaging, and the bike shop will confirm this." so I can only assume that the delivery truck driver stopped somewhere along the way, unpacked the bike and rode some gnarly trails with steep jumps and drops, and eventually crashed it into a tree, and then boxed it back up and delivered it to me. That's the ONLY possible explanation for the cracks. :shock:

So, the seller saw the pics and is telling me they weren't there when he shipped the bike. He wouldn't LIE to me, would he? Either that or he doesn't know what he's talking about and is too stubborn to admit he might be wrong. So, according to him, he's "perfect", so he's not to blame. Yeah right, and I'm sure he wears a halo and his poop doesn't stink either.

If I want to collect insurance, I'll need to prove the seller's claim that it was in "perfect condition", but I neglected to have him send me closeup photos before making the decision to buy, so it looks like I'll be chalking this one up as a lesson learned.

The lesson:
Always get good pics first, then make sure to purchase adequate insurance, and finally use a trusted 3rd party like eBay where a sellers income is dependent on their good reputation.