New member here from the USA with a couple bikes from the UK

[sd5782]

More pics. More pics as promised. This frame looks too clean inside perhaps to be from the 70s and then updated. That still begs the question of whether Andy McNeil was still building frames into the 80s or beyond.



As can be seen, this frame has rather plain details with lugs and brake and chainstay bridges. It seems quite clean inside, but obviously needs some touch up work. It seems as though it could have been a custom build without lots of frills, but still having some nice touches. I’ll post more pics of the fork next.

This fame is 23” seat tube to top, and 22.5” top tube ctc. BB height is 10.75” and fork offset is around 50-55mm giving a measured trail of around 50-52 mm. Frame weight is right at 4.5# with the headset cups included. The slender seat stays are 13mm tapering to 11mm at the Zeus rear dropouts. The bike weighted 26# as first pictured.

As can be seen, a properly dished rear wheel sits a bit off as the left side dropout is a bit low compared to the right. This will need addressed. The second to last pic shows the bb and also has an aluminum rod in the dropouts showing the slight misalignment. A string alignment test does however show the front and rear triangles to be aligned. BB number stamping has been covered by the cable guides.

 

[sd5782]

And now on to the fork. It is somewhat confusing. First, even though riding on 27” rims, it has a huge amount of vertical tire clearance and had a Weinmann 730 front brake caliper on it. A 700c conversion would need long reach brakes for sure. Campagnolo front dropouts. The other interesting thing is that it seems quite heavy compared to the main frame. It is 838 grams even though the steerer tube is butted 531. The paint on the crown race is undisturbed as the installed crown race was less than hand tight.

The fork blades measured around 27.5X20mm at the fork crown. Searches showed that Milremo made crowns such as this which also may match the chrome bike. Both bikes also had the Milremo stems and Zeus rear dropouts. The sleuthing probably needs both done together, but I haven’t stripped down the chrome bike yet.
As mentioned, this is quite the challenge to identify, especially here in the USA. I am an older rider, so the longer wheelbase and softer 531 ride is desirable to me. As an aside, and to add to the confusion, the older chrome sister bike also has the seat tube notch at the top. The few numbers on the BB of the chrome sort of match with the font style, but that one does indeed look older. Fun stuff.

 

[Jamiedyer]

Hello again and thanks for the pics, they are really helpful. My opinion is they are both Andy McNeil frames. Agree that the green one looks a quite late one being mid 80's on the chrome one being earlier. I will try and get some of the older Flying Scot boys to have a look as they were all quite well versed with Andy's work. While I don't want to speak ill of anyone, it is a given here in Scotland that some of his later frames could need tweaking as he was known to like a good drink in the later days.
They are both nice frames and well worth preserving and indeed riding.
Here are a couple of photos of #991 that was in my loft.

Untitled by Jamie Dyer, on Flickr

Untitled by Jamie Dyer, on Flickr

Untitled by Jamie Dyer, on Flickr

Untitled by Jamie Dyer, on Flickr

Untitled by Jamie Dyer, on Flickr

Untitled by Jamie Dyer, on Flickr

Untitled by Jamie Dyer, on Flickr

 

[sd5782]

Thanks very much for the help figuring this one out. So Andy made frames as late as the 80s? When I saw mine with an older headset and bottom bracket I thought the odds were from it being earlier as I saw that McNeil was a prewar builder. Good for him if he was building still into the 80s. What year do you figure your beautiful frame is from? Yours has the notch in the seat tube you spoke of, and the seat stays like mine has. I may get the chrome one torn down eventually just to see and document it too. In the meantime, I just bought a rough 1974 Raleigh International. Thanks for the info.
Steve