New member here from the USA with a couple bikes from the UK

[sd5782]

Hello UK. I am a new member here seeking info which brings most newbies to forums. I am from the Midwest of the USA. The very used bikes I recently purchased are from the UK and one is stickered from the shop of JR Nicholson of Dundee Scotland. Allegedly both bikes came from the same owner. I won’t be doing too much work on these until next winters cold dark months.



I will have better photos in the future seeking identification help. Neither bike is anywhere near how they were originally built I am sure. The chrome one has plenty of chrome loss and the green one has some scratches. My first post is also trying to figure out the format here, and as an introduction. Cheers in advance.

 

[sjcprojects]

Welcome to the forum. That chromed one certainly looks interesting, and not in bad condition considering how easily chrome can deteriorate with even a hint of moisture. Unless someone knows where JR Nicholson bought their frames from, it might be hard to ID the maker, I suspect, but you never know. You're in the right place for that sort of thing, anyway!

The green one looks like it could have been resprayed. I would guess it might come down to what the frame numbers are on both of them to get any chance of an ID.

 

[sd5782]

Up close pics of chrome one shows plentiful corrosion. Several interesting details of chrome one;

-brazed-on BB cable guide on ds only indicating perhaps originally a five speed
-Zeus rear dropouts and unmarked front
-26.8 seatpost but not too round
-Milremo Professional stem
-crazy thin seat stays tapering to 8mm at dropout
-sloped fork crown
-27” Weinmann wheels on vintage Campy low flange hubs
-medium reach brake calipers front and rear
-only number on frame I could find was a 4440 stamped across the BB shell

I did email Nicholsons which closed on June 1st. The former 40 year operator of the shop indicated that decades ago trips were made with the original owner to Glasgow to buy frames made by Andy McNeil who did side work away from his day job.
The green one doesn’t look as old, but may have had braze-ones added. On the BB is a few numbers sort of matching the chrome one, but one is now covered by a brazed on cable guide. Numbers are 44?1. It does look like a respray with thick paint, perhaps even powder coating. It doesn’t look like quite the quality workmanship as the other. A few details after a bit of disassembly

-sloped fork crown, needing long reach front brake even with the 27” wheels
-1972 campy hubs relaced with stainless spokes to Weinmann rims
-Milremo Professional stem
-27.2 seatpost fitting tightly
-really cool shot in seatstays that are quite thin
-Reynolds 531 butted 16/13 on steerer tube
-Zeus rear dropouts and Campagnolo front
-125 rear spacing with rear dropouts not being quite level
- longish wheelbase of 41 1/4” to center of rear drops

These do look interesting. I have a few decent bikes in my stable, and was originally after something like a Raleigh International when these came up at a bike swap for a reasonable price. I post a bit on a Classic and Vintage forum here in the states, but my take is that these looked like semi custom builds for a small shop, so USA info might not be too useful. They look like fun projects.

 

[sd5782]

I see in my profile various things like message, and trophy? I will have to brush up on the FAQ section to see how everything operates here. As an aside, I never mentioned the stateside details I know of these bikes which is very little. There is a 6-7 day annual ride in my state of Ohio that goes to various parts of this state. The chrome bike has stickers from 1995 and 1996, and one other. The green one has 1996 only, so it seems they did travel together. It also points to the green one perhaps being updated in the 1995 time frame. I bought these bikes from an Ohio church ministry that does outreach to needy people. They got these in somewhat operational condition to sell believing they weren’t really the right fit for needy users and thought the cash would better help their ministry. One might assume that these came from former owners who had gotten older and could no longer use them. Former UK residents? UK visitors years ago? Children of UK residents inheriting them? Who knows?

 

[Canuk]

Jack 'Big Nic' was a prominent racing man with the Dundee Thistle club. My old man raced alongside when he worked out of the RAF up the east coast. Here's a few photos of Jack and later with his team at the shop.

It would be interesting to find out how the bikes came to the US. I've a cousin in Philly who has a few Flying Scot bikes and a Worrall (from Hamilton). He emigrated the in 78.

 

[Canuk]

The green one looks like a mid 80s build with concealed brake cables and the shot in stays. I'd say the chrome bike is probably early 70s. As the shop is still going in Dundee, they might have a frame register.

 

[sd5782]

Not much work done with it being summer recreation weather. A few crude pics here though. The shop ow er who emailed me was Jack’s son in law. The shop is now closed. I was in agreement with the dates mentioned.

 

[Jesper]

Welcome from another USA rider.

 

[Jamiedyer]

A couple of really nice frames you have there and it is very sad news that Nicholsons closed at the start of the month. My 1958 Flying Scot was originally sold by Nicholsons. Hard to tell from the photos but it looks like the green one has at the front top of the seat tube a small notch cut out of it. This is one of Andy McNeils trademarks or identifiers. If you can show a photo of this we may be able to confirm. Andy built some very lovely builds and was a great craftsman in his day. He worked at Rattrays for Flying Scot on and off while also building his own frames. Not huge numbers of his own frames and even for the shops, I think most were custom from memory. Hard to find these days. Nicholsons also bought in from Rattrays.
Regardless of maker they look like very nicely built frames ans as from Nicholsons and branded Nicholsons they will definitely be Scottish built.
Fantastic find by the way. Look forward to hearing and seeing more.

Jamie

 

[sd5782]

It looks like I came to the right place for knowledge of these frames. Yes, the green one does indeed have a small notch cut into the top front of the seat tube. I did just strip it down today and will try to get some better pics of it soon. That one looked most interesting, so I went at it first.

It is also confusing as parts are mixed. The headset and bottom bracket are marked T.D.C. Made in England. The bb had a very long 135mm spindle in it that looked quite old as did the bearing cages. The fork crown bearing race was marked Brampton and was oversized on the fork so quite loose. And then there was the added downtube shifter braze-ons and the under bb cable guides. The Shimano 105 derailleurs and 7 speed indexed shifters look 80s or 90s.

It will be interesting if this is an early frame from McNeil. It may need some fettling as the rear dropouts aren’t quite on plane with the bb, so the rear wheel is tilted to one side. I tried a different wheel and also reversed it and got the same result. Also, the bb shell measured 66.7mm and not 68. The campy hubs were stamped 72, so maybe this was originally from 1972, and had an adventurous life including a major facelift.

Thanks for chiming in on this. It should be interesting. The other frame looks less altered and may be easier to identify to a timeframe.