New bike - would you choose disc or rim brake ?
- Thread starter foz
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MattiThundrrr
Kona Fan
There's the wisdom of the thread right there. Buying new technology is in no way "future proof". All you've done is bought yourself a little more time before the inevitability of planned obsolescence catches up. There'll be a new standard along shortly to wipe out whatever you bought
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Doesn’t it seem reasonable that folks that enjoy rim brakes should keep using them? For thems the obsolescence must be frustrating. I commuted so many years in my hilly rainy city and braking was always fraught. For me it’s a genuine relief that I only need to manage the tire traction now, and the cars trying to pass too close. I wanted discs before they existed and im glad they do. No conspiracy is needed to explain why they’re everywhere now.
While I’m a big fan of discs I am no fan of the eshifting. Sure it’s better and faster (it really is great to use) but the price and having electronics and a rechargeable battery on my bike… it screams ‘over complex’ to me, but I’ve never had trouble managing gear shifts.
I don’t think hydraulic brakes are more complex than the clockwork in a mechanical brifter but probably I’ll be called ossified if I don’t change my mind about electronic shifting within 10 years.
While I’m a big fan of discs I am no fan of the eshifting. Sure it’s better and faster (it really is great to use) but the price and having electronics and a rechargeable battery on my bike… it screams ‘over complex’ to me, but I’ve never had trouble managing gear shifts.
I don’t think hydraulic brakes are more complex than the clockwork in a mechanical brifter but probably I’ll be called ossified if I don’t change my mind about electronic shifting within 10 years.
Spent a couple of the last months in a road cycling mecca of sorts in Spain. Notorious dry, warm, hot and drought suffering. 1st forest fire was already over 6 weeks ago now. In four years since I last visited, I guestimated about an 8 fold volume in increase in cyclists. I also guestimated only about 1 out of 25 bikes had rim brakes. It's mountainous, good fast smooth roads, and cycling friendly.
No conspiracy. It's fashion, advertising, and our inane ability to (help) create need. I know the place well, and personally not felt the need to leave well set-up cantilevers with STIs, and I even go pretty much beyond the average road rider and do off-road vinyard / citric fruit or fire roads too on 32mm / 35mm tyres.
The wet rim (sound) reasoning may be an immediate direct benefit to you, but no way do I buy this having witnessed what I just did. Since it's pretty much only recreation riding too, I can promise the roads are empty of cyclist when it does rain and pour buckets. Selling that particular benefit is a none starter, so other things I think are at play.
Yes I totally agree that folks are often 'overbiked'. I saw the same thing in Moab where there were entire families of novice mtb riders, on green trails, were on new 5k+ carbon santa cruz hightowers. Moms in tennis shoes following their kids. Why didn't they get the megatower?
Simplest explanation is that salespeople are great at sowing doubt, ratchetting the fear of a bad purchase. The buyer wants their investment to be future proof! "What kind of riding do you do?" No newb wants to be under biked they're going to go live the dream. Of course they need 12 speeds and 150mm of travel and a bell.
Speaking of spain I was in besalu in april and got absolutely dumped on descending el mont. Ditto for some mid april passes in the french pyrenees where it got cold and sleeted and I was underdressed. I won't say rim brakes would have made the descents impossible but I had trouble braking even with the discs, mostly because I was shivering so hard. To your point though... my entire trip I don't think I ever saw another rider when it was raining.
Oh gosh I just remembered: I did see the MOST HEINOUS BICYCLE CRIMES being committed at the girona car wash - the thing(tm) after your morning weekend gravel ride is to blast all the bearings on your new carbon bike with high pressure water. New and to me spotless 10-12k colnagos, pinarellos. There was a line of cyclists waiting with euro coins to ruin their bikes with the hot soapy high pressure sprayer. Get in there real good!
Good points. I can understand manufactures and key sponsors need to constantly push a new product (in largely) competitive activates. I've rabbited on a few times about how we get sold this is "trickle down technology to benefit all".
Fact is of course, pros are paid to use what they are paid to ride, and the trickle down is more economic and advertising arguments to to fund the next thing at top level R&D and associated mistakes. Some design principals will remain, but fact is material quality and durability etc. suffers in it's due course.
I am a retro fan, but like mentioned in a bit of similar dilemma to the OP. I've got the stuff in the attic, cable TRPs and XT rotors unmounted and tested.
Love your anecdotes
My one time I will say jaw dropping experience was descending Pas De La Case into Andorra years ago in torrential rain and with rear panniers. Campag Chorus Monoplaners performed superb. A testament to all the solid bulk of AL on them I think. The brake block bleed dripped down the forks and gunk on the rims was a stark reminder that parts wear out, and do fast in extreme conditions. The cold and hand cramps had to be managed constantly and the day after a healthy tweak of the barrel adjuster was much needed.
For years since, it's cantilever frame only. Something about that I got involved from the CX scene, but also like many things consider it is like a complete system with proper no flex hangers, right braze ons withing tolerance etc. etc. etc. Straddle height adjustment, make sure they hit the rims at the same time, and make sure your rim width is spot on too. I have no issues to replace a new rim to an old hub, so have never really had the need to rush out and buy new wheels either.
I don't know what my point is here, but I think I would like to summarise that rim brake on an alloy rim did reach a pinnacle performance in road, CX, touring, tandem, MTB etc. and that pinnacle is absolutely more than good enough in the majority of cases. A fairly good mid end or high end rim calliper or cantilever brake I believe is still good to have and stock up on. I can fully understand disk brakes on a DH monster - I mean of course drawing from the MC/MX world would have been logical and life saving.
When rims went to carbon, I understood from my brother that Corima could only come up with a cork brake pad. This is madness on every level, and despite cork does have interesting properties, it is clear that some basic aspects of engineering (namely you never get something for nothing) or it must have been very very assumed and in fine print that these rims were destined for TT in Norfolk or Holland only and trashed after 10 rides.
I can see the disk evolutionary need if carbon rims is the driving force, but that in no means disqualifies a breaking technology that was at it's peak and refined constantly during almost 100 years or so.
Like many here, I'm old enough to have chromed steel rims and crappy flexy pressed steel or wittled down to nothing flexy Wienmann side pulls. Again this is absolutely no reason to dish rim brakes blanket wise, but I will say try riding first vintage generation Bowden calipers (circa 1910). All I can say is you are happy for a fixed gear to add to "slowing down" because that is all they could ever do.
Stopping is oddly somewhat of a luxury in modern-ish day cycling. Perhaps more modern day disk braking is grappling with less than a complete enclosed mechanical system to braking and missing a vitally important feedback loop tactile and brain wise. I don't know, but I have seen some shocking incidents in pro cycling and that actually deters to venture outwards to new technology for me.
Fact is of course, pros are paid to use what they are paid to ride, and the trickle down is more economic and advertising arguments to to fund the next thing at top level R&D and associated mistakes. Some design principals will remain, but fact is material quality and durability etc. suffers in it's due course.
I am a retro fan, but like mentioned in a bit of similar dilemma to the OP. I've got the stuff in the attic, cable TRPs and XT rotors unmounted and tested.
Love your anecdotes
My one time I will say jaw dropping experience was descending Pas De La Case into Andorra years ago in torrential rain and with rear panniers. Campag Chorus Monoplaners performed superb. A testament to all the solid bulk of AL on them I think. The brake block bleed dripped down the forks and gunk on the rims was a stark reminder that parts wear out, and do fast in extreme conditions. The cold and hand cramps had to be managed constantly and the day after a healthy tweak of the barrel adjuster was much needed.
For years since, it's cantilever frame only. Something about that I got involved from the CX scene, but also like many things consider it is like a complete system with proper no flex hangers, right braze ons withing tolerance etc. etc. etc. Straddle height adjustment, make sure they hit the rims at the same time, and make sure your rim width is spot on too. I have no issues to replace a new rim to an old hub, so have never really had the need to rush out and buy new wheels either.
I don't know what my point is here, but I think I would like to summarise that rim brake on an alloy rim did reach a pinnacle performance in road, CX, touring, tandem, MTB etc. and that pinnacle is absolutely more than good enough in the majority of cases. A fairly good mid end or high end rim calliper or cantilever brake I believe is still good to have and stock up on. I can fully understand disk brakes on a DH monster - I mean of course drawing from the MC/MX world would have been logical and life saving.
When rims went to carbon, I understood from my brother that Corima could only come up with a cork brake pad. This is madness on every level, and despite cork does have interesting properties, it is clear that some basic aspects of engineering (namely you never get something for nothing) or it must have been very very assumed and in fine print that these rims were destined for TT in Norfolk or Holland only and trashed after 10 rides.
I can see the disk evolutionary need if carbon rims is the driving force, but that in no means disqualifies a breaking technology that was at it's peak and refined constantly during almost 100 years or so.
Like many here, I'm old enough to have chromed steel rims and crappy flexy pressed steel or wittled down to nothing flexy Wienmann side pulls. Again this is absolutely no reason to dish rim brakes blanket wise, but I will say try riding first vintage generation Bowden calipers (circa 1910). All I can say is you are happy for a fixed gear to add to "slowing down" because that is all they could ever do.
Stopping is oddly somewhat of a luxury in modern-ish day cycling. Perhaps more modern day disk braking is grappling with less than a complete enclosed mechanical system to braking and missing a vitally important feedback loop tactile and brain wise. I don't know, but I have seen some shocking incidents in pro cycling and that actually deters to venture outwards to new technology for me.
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So, i started this thread and then disappeared from it! I live in Spain, and do see a lot more disc bikes now but that's probably because it's all you can get nowadays if buying new... There are still a lot of rim brake bikes on the roads though. I went down the route of stockpiling parts that should keep me going for many years. The huge positive with disc brakes is that rim brake equipment, narrow alloy rims, and other "out of date" parts can now be had at bargain prices! So I've been taking advantage and building a stash
Sure, some modern bikes look great and could tempt me, I've never tried discs on the road, or electronic shifting, but I don't feel the need to. I don't race, but can still descend a lot faster than the majority of riders I meet on discs (there's a lot more to riding than just being able to stop quickly with one finger, things like reading the road, the way you turn in and out of curves, etc. will easily make you faster than someone who can't do that but has better brakes). I'll agree that for wet climates or racing then discs are probably an advantage over rim brakes. But I still think there's way too much marketing involved and refuse to be forced into buying modern stuff because my old bike is no longer compatible.
I am sticking with rim brakes, mechanical shifting, threaded BBs, and no proprietary standards for as long as I possibly can!
Sure, some modern bikes look great and could tempt me, I've never tried discs on the road, or electronic shifting, but I don't feel the need to. I don't race, but can still descend a lot faster than the majority of riders I meet on discs (there's a lot more to riding than just being able to stop quickly with one finger, things like reading the road, the way you turn in and out of curves, etc. will easily make you faster than someone who can't do that but has better brakes). I'll agree that for wet climates or racing then discs are probably an advantage over rim brakes. But I still think there's way too much marketing involved and refuse to be forced into buying modern stuff because my old bike is no longer compatible.
I am sticking with rim brakes, mechanical shifting, threaded BBs, and no proprietary standards for as long as I possibly can!
So, i started this thread and then disappeared from it! I live in Spain, and do see a lot more disc bikes now but that's probably because it's all you can get nowadays if buying new... There are still a lot of rim brake bikes on the roads though. I went down the route of stockpiling parts that should keep me going for many years. The huge positive with disc brakes is that rim brake equipment, narrow alloy rims, and other "out of date" parts can now be had at bargain prices! So I've been taking advantage and building a stash
Sure, some modern bikes look great and could tempt me, I've never tried discs on the road, or electronic shifting, but I don't feel the need to. I don't race, but can still descend a lot faster than the majority of riders I meet on discs (there's a lot more to riding than just being able to stop quickly with one finger, things like reading the road, the way you turn in and out of curves, etc. will easily make you faster than someone who can't do that but has better brakes). I'll agree that for wet climates or racing then discs are probably an advantage over rim brakes. But I still think there's way too much marketing involved and refuse to be forced into buying modern stuff because my old bike is no longer compatible.
I am sticking with rim brakes, mechanical shifting, threaded BBs, and no proprietary standards for as long as I possibly can!
Great you chimed back. I updated my post / rant.
It probably boils down to having the right gear on the bike and reserves stashed for your riding needs and wants. Land lay doesn't change that much overtime, road surfaces do, climate change is a subject in itself, but we also get a bit older and more good looking and wiser and we don't really need to belt along like the pros either and have on us that forced technology.
We are in a good position to choose.
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