PanoIgano
Fat Chance Fan
@D N Stone Got any pictures of this by any chance?
Lightest Steel Frame?
- Thread starter Canuk
- Start date
Some pictures earlier in the thread
Canuk
Old School Grand Master
These guys from Weapon are making nice lightweight steel frames. It doesn't say what brand of tube it is, but if triple butted probably Tange at 1500gr.
https://weaponbicycle.com/product/weapon-tc03-lightweight-steel-track-frame-steel/
https://weaponbicycle.com/product/weapon-tc03-lightweight-steel-track-frame-steel/
Canuk
Old School Grand Master
I'm very surprised there are no UK or European builders adopting the Tange Ultimate tube set - surely a viable competitor to fragile Carbon construction.
Maybe it's not in the retail chain yet and still in 'development', I can't see it in any frame tube distribution channels, not even in China who are generally way ahead of the curve on new build tech. I'd definitely buy one if there was a straight choice between a plastic frame with dubious durability and an all steel Tange at 1200gr...
I'll get me coat...
Maybe it's not in the retail chain yet and still in 'development', I can't see it in any frame tube distribution channels, not even in China who are generally way ahead of the curve on new build tech. I'd definitely buy one if there was a straight choice between a plastic frame with dubious durability and an all steel Tange at 1200gr...
I'll get me coat...
Canuk
Old School Grand Master
I've got a Columbus spirit Carrera frame, it's stupid light at 1530gr, AND a full chrome rear triangle. I didn't think much of it at first till I built it up and then, wow! A real joy to ride also with a bespoke decor paint finish. Makes you wonder what a bare unpainted frame would weigh in at, 1300-1350gr? That average full carbon territory
bikeworkshop
Old School Grand Master
Awful name
Most modern frame developments are for carbon fibre not steel, so once you build it up with internal cables, tapered fork, aero seatpost, through axles, flat-mount disc tabs, push-fit or os bb, it's starting to look a bit odd, but costing quite a bit more to make than a traditional setup.
Many of these features will have moved on in a decade, making the design a mockery of longevity - the market is therefore quite small.
Small, but not non- existent.
But small makes it expensive too.
bulgie
Dirt Disciple
The frame I made my wife in 1989 (I think) weighed 1,111 g, and the fork was 450g (under a pound!). All steel, 49 cm frame.
Main frame tubes are Prestige .6/.3. Tange's set used .7/.4 for the seat tube, so I used a DT as ST, so all 3 are .6/.3
Rear stays are Columbus KL I believe. I think the fork blades are Excel, but I didn't keep records. Still have the fork though so I can show it on a scale if needed! The frame failed after 17 years of riding, and she rides more than I do, often with racer friends or ex-racers, she hammers for someone so petite. This frame was made after she quit racing though so it wasn't raced. She won medals at District championships and raced at Nationals, on her previous bike.
I wasn't much for taking pictures back then, too poor to afford the film developing/printing mostly, but the frame did get written up in Bicycle Guide magazine when it was new, featured on their "Hot Tubes" page. I got misquoted, and they got the weight wrong (idiots!), but any publicity is good publicity right? I had to send them the frame for them to photograph, so they had it in hand — so how could they say the frame was "under 3 pounds"? Well yeah it is but it's also under 2.5 pounds. You'd think that was worth mentioning. Maybe they didn't believe their scale? Anyway... I'm over it! (Obviously not.)
The eventual failure was rust-through at the dropout end of the left chainstay, from too much "ridden hard and put away wet" (literally, it rains a lot here). She always hung it from the front wheel, so any water that got in (usually at the slit where the seatpost tightens) puddled at the dropout end of the chainstays. My fault for not putting a drain hole in the BB shell.
If you just took all those tubes and parts (lugs, shell, dropouts etc) it would add up to more than that, but I lightened almost everything. I didn't lighten the main frame tubes — 0.3 mm is thin enough! But I did chuck the other tubes in the lathe and sanded them down in the middles, making them essentially externally-butted. Note, the place on the chainstay that rusted through was not thinned by me, that was still full thickness, whatever KL stays are. Nothing ever broke where it was thinned by me.
Lots of the thinningw as stealth, not visible. Like the BB shell, lightened on the inside, between the threaded areas, which were only about 8 mm in from each end, scary-thin in between. I lightened the fork crown on the inside too, can't see it after brazing. Even the braze-ons were lightened.
I asked her if the frame was too whippy, and she said she didn't notice any flex. But after it broke, in maybe 2006 she got a Trek Madone, since I was retired from framebuilding by then. She disliked the Madone and that's when she noticed the flex — when it wasn't there! After a couple years on the Trek, she moved it along and got a used Lightspeed Ti (circa '98 I think), which has some flex but it's still too stiff.
So recently I have set up a home hobby-framebuilding shop, and I will make her a new frame, using some of the tubes from the crazy-light frame. The TT for example, I can cut it shorter due to being sloped. At 74 years old she needs the bars a lot higher than when she was racing, so I will make it massively sloped and the old tube will probably have the heat-affected zones cut off, making it 'like new' (and even lighter!)
The ST angle will be shallower too, which makes the DT shorter, so I will be able to re-use it. Can't re-use the ST because I creased (indented) it in back (yes on purpose!) with a radius just matching the tire, to allow the chainstays to be that much shorter. Not going to do that on the new bike, which will be made for 26" wheels and a bit more room between tire and ST.
I definitely want to re-use the setastays because I can't get anything that light anymore, and I made these cute caps for the tops at the seat lug:
Just have to melt off those lug pieces.
And here's that fork-weight pic:
I'm going to re-use the blades and dropouts, so I have to melt them out of the crown. The new crown is fully-sloping, and the 26" wheels are smaller, so I can probably cut off all the heat-affected zone and have 'good as new' blades. The new crown will be wider for comfy tires, and the steerer will be much longer, so it'll be heavier.
The frame might end up being lighter though! Since it'll be lugless, I can use a 1" TT as the ST, with a suitably smaller seatpost which will be custom made. Probably ovalized at the BB for a bit more strength and stiffness, easy to do with lugless. The chainstays I will use are actually Prestige Ultimate seatstays for MTB, scary-thin wall and only 19 mm diameter vs 22.2 mm on the original.
Oh, BTW, this was not the lightest frame or fork I ever made. I made another frame for a tiny adult lady, don't remember the weight but it probably around a kilo, maybe under. I bet the fork was around 400 g. (It was made for 650a wheels, so the blades were shorter too which helps). Inch toptubes (.6/.3) as the DT and ST, and superlight chainstays as forkblades. It was for a customer of Bob Freeman of Elliott Bay Bicycles in Seattle; he sold it so he might remember the weight. Zero pictures of that one unfortunately. It did go to a big bike show (Interbike, the largest US trade show) so there might be pictures of it out there. Would have been in about 1992. I never got any ride report from the owner, but it didn't come back broken either, so I assume it was a success.
I don't think you can buy steel tubing that light anymore, so there will probably never be a lighter steel frame than this.
Main frame tubes are Prestige .6/.3. Tange's set used .7/.4 for the seat tube, so I used a DT as ST, so all 3 are .6/.3
Rear stays are Columbus KL I believe. I think the fork blades are Excel, but I didn't keep records. Still have the fork though so I can show it on a scale if needed! The frame failed after 17 years of riding, and she rides more than I do, often with racer friends or ex-racers, she hammers for someone so petite. This frame was made after she quit racing though so it wasn't raced. She won medals at District championships and raced at Nationals, on her previous bike.
I wasn't much for taking pictures back then, too poor to afford the film developing/printing mostly, but the frame did get written up in Bicycle Guide magazine when it was new, featured on their "Hot Tubes" page. I got misquoted, and they got the weight wrong (idiots!), but any publicity is good publicity right? I had to send them the frame for them to photograph, so they had it in hand — so how could they say the frame was "under 3 pounds"? Well yeah it is but it's also under 2.5 pounds. You'd think that was worth mentioning. Maybe they didn't believe their scale? Anyway... I'm over it! (Obviously not.)
The eventual failure was rust-through at the dropout end of the left chainstay, from too much "ridden hard and put away wet" (literally, it rains a lot here). She always hung it from the front wheel, so any water that got in (usually at the slit where the seatpost tightens) puddled at the dropout end of the chainstays. My fault for not putting a drain hole in the BB shell.
If you just took all those tubes and parts (lugs, shell, dropouts etc) it would add up to more than that, but I lightened almost everything. I didn't lighten the main frame tubes — 0.3 mm is thin enough! But I did chuck the other tubes in the lathe and sanded them down in the middles, making them essentially externally-butted. Note, the place on the chainstay that rusted through was not thinned by me, that was still full thickness, whatever KL stays are. Nothing ever broke where it was thinned by me.
Lots of the thinningw as stealth, not visible. Like the BB shell, lightened on the inside, between the threaded areas, which were only about 8 mm in from each end, scary-thin in between. I lightened the fork crown on the inside too, can't see it after brazing. Even the braze-ons were lightened.
I asked her if the frame was too whippy, and she said she didn't notice any flex. But after it broke, in maybe 2006 she got a Trek Madone, since I was retired from framebuilding by then. She disliked the Madone and that's when she noticed the flex — when it wasn't there! After a couple years on the Trek, she moved it along and got a used Lightspeed Ti (circa '98 I think), which has some flex but it's still too stiff.
So recently I have set up a home hobby-framebuilding shop, and I will make her a new frame, using some of the tubes from the crazy-light frame. The TT for example, I can cut it shorter due to being sloped. At 74 years old she needs the bars a lot higher than when she was racing, so I will make it massively sloped and the old tube will probably have the heat-affected zones cut off, making it 'like new' (and even lighter!)
The ST angle will be shallower too, which makes the DT shorter, so I will be able to re-use it. Can't re-use the ST because I creased (indented) it in back (yes on purpose!) with a radius just matching the tire, to allow the chainstays to be that much shorter. Not going to do that on the new bike, which will be made for 26" wheels and a bit more room between tire and ST.
I definitely want to re-use the setastays because I can't get anything that light anymore, and I made these cute caps for the tops at the seat lug:
Just have to melt off those lug pieces.
And here's that fork-weight pic:
I'm going to re-use the blades and dropouts, so I have to melt them out of the crown. The new crown is fully-sloping, and the 26" wheels are smaller, so I can probably cut off all the heat-affected zone and have 'good as new' blades. The new crown will be wider for comfy tires, and the steerer will be much longer, so it'll be heavier.
The frame might end up being lighter though! Since it'll be lugless, I can use a 1" TT as the ST, with a suitably smaller seatpost which will be custom made. Probably ovalized at the BB for a bit more strength and stiffness, easy to do with lugless. The chainstays I will use are actually Prestige Ultimate seatstays for MTB, scary-thin wall and only 19 mm diameter vs 22.2 mm on the original.
Oh, BTW, this was not the lightest frame or fork I ever made. I made another frame for a tiny adult lady, don't remember the weight but it probably around a kilo, maybe under. I bet the fork was around 400 g. (It was made for 650a wheels, so the blades were shorter too which helps). Inch toptubes (.6/.3) as the DT and ST, and superlight chainstays as forkblades. It was for a customer of Bob Freeman of Elliott Bay Bicycles in Seattle; he sold it so he might remember the weight. Zero pictures of that one unfortunately. It did go to a big bike show (Interbike, the largest US trade show) so there might be pictures of it out there. Would have been in about 1992. I never got any ride report from the owner, but it didn't come back broken either, so I assume it was a success.
I don't think you can buy steel tubing that light anymore, so there will probably never be a lighter steel frame than this.
bulgie
Dirt Disciple
Oh right I meant to include the BG Magazine 'Hot Tubes' article scan. And I was reminded that it's in the Feb.'91 issue, so the frame must have been built in 1990, not '89 as I said above.
My name isn't Davidson, I was just a wage slave there.
For the record, I never said "gobbledygook"! The interview took place in a loud tavern, some number of strong ales were consumed, and he wasn't recording or taking notes!
I complain, but I was still pretty chuffed to have my frame in a big glossy magazine.
My name isn't Davidson, I was just a wage slave there.
For the record, I never said "gobbledygook"! The interview took place in a loud tavern, some number of strong ales were consumed, and he wasn't recording or taking notes!
I complain, but I was still pretty chuffed to have my frame in a big glossy magazine.
Canuk
Old School Grand Master
That's a very nicely put together frame! Good job, I don't think I've ever seen a steel frame that intricate or lightweight 
The lightest small production frame in ever got my hands on was a Lemond 853, I think it was a 50cm, picked it up cheap for my niece. It was just a smidge over 1200gr. It was never really ridden much and I don't know what happened to it, but Lemond did make some really exceptional steel frames back in the day. I always get that 'buy it' sensation when I see one cheap on the French second hand market, this far resisted temptation!
The lightest small production frame in ever got my hands on was a Lemond 853, I think it was a 50cm, picked it up cheap for my niece. It was just a smidge over 1200gr. It was never really ridden much and I don't know what happened to it, but Lemond did make some really exceptional steel frames back in the day. I always get that 'buy it' sensation when I see one cheap on the French second hand market, this far resisted temptation!
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Rapparee87
Retro Guru
Brilliant. Great to see some horizontal top tubes.
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