Legal Highs

[brocklanders023]

For me it comes down to the individual. My mum would probably faint if she knew half of what I got up to on my teenage/early 20's visits to Amsterdam.
Im not a boring person (honestly, ask my friends), and whatever ive dabbled with has been more of a curious experiment, and one or two of the funniest most memorable nights of my life have been under certain influences.
But im reasoned enough to completely stop after the experiment is over.
I think thats the difference.

Free your mind, and the rest will follow.

Spot on mate, exactly the same for me. I could probably count on my fingers the number of nights I've lost in a drug haze in my younger days but they have been some of the best of my life. Never had some of the mega addictive stuff because I'm not that stupid but imo trying a bit of this and that is all part of growing up.

If those that waste their lives on drugs hadn't ever had any they'd find another way to waste their life. It all comes down to the sort of person you are I guess.

 

[Bram J]

If those that waste their lives on drugs hadn't ever had any they'd find another way to waste their life. It all comes down to the sort of person you are I guess.

I don't think this would always be the case, how you handle your drug use has a lot to do with your personality, but I also believe that drug use can change someones personality. I not only believe it, I've seen it.

 

[suburbanreuben]

You'd have to have the amounts designated under statute what would be simple possession or possession with intent to supply. Now there would be a good argument to watch.

Still doesn't prevent the criminals from raking it in and also will still mean that poor, low quality and even dangerous concoctions are continued being made and supplied to get around the legality side of things.

Now I'm not condoning the taking of drugs in fact I am very much against it but other than Legalise the lot and regulating the industry how do you suggest we prevent or diminish the risks to users?

How else can we put an end or severely reduce the amount of money being raked in by certain 'shady' organisations?

With present Policies and Procedures we cannot win the fight against drugs. It is becoming more and more likely that EVERY child in the UK will have some contact with a controlled drug during their Teens. They can of course make a choice of shall I or shan't I. But of those that say 'hmm ok I might give this a go' or even worse those put under extreme peer pressure to try it then they are increasingly dicing with death. People may say that education is the way forward. I'm all for educating against the dangers of drugs but it won't stop experimentation or peer pressure.

Now as a father I will educate my children to the dangers of drugs, I will also watch them like a hawk when they are growing up and of course give them a bollocking where appropriate. But why take the risk of them experimenting with a potential poisonous substance when they could legally purchase something which is processed, regulated and relatively safer ( I use 'relatively' of course a bit tongue in cheek). If you want to know how dangerous some of these substances are. A Meth Amphet lab when discovered by Police will have a minimum 300m cordon imposed around it. The chemicals involved in 'cooking' meth are highly dangerous and explosive with some of the fumes given off being lethal in a matter of minutes. If I come across one in work I am required to wear a full NCB suit for standing on the inner cordon never mind about actually going into the house!! It takes 30 minutes to bloody get on and not very nice when you need to pee !!

I have absollutely nothing against legalising drugs (other than it will make them too expensive), but please, read what I'm saying , and answer my concerns .Are organised crime, the Taliban, the Mafia, Colombian Cartels , Mexican drug barons, Jamaican Yardies, and Dutch Hippies, just going to hand over control of a multi billion dollar trade to the man from the ministry?
I don't think so.
Is Dave going to be prepared to visit Colombia to personally sign the deal for 150 tons of prime Coca bush, and finally ratify what Pablo Escobar has known all along; he's a respectable businessman- not a murderous thug?
I don't think so.

 

[Gadro]

So you're saying these Drug Barons are too powerful for country's to contend with?

Why? and how did they get so powerful??? Because we've allowed them to become the sole supplier of a commodity used all over this planet by millions on a daily basis. A commodity that they realise is so lucrative that they protect with guns. Very similar to the way that the Chicago Mob worked during prohibition. These gangs cannot compete with industry in producing both quantity and quality. The bootleggers died as could these 'Barons' Market competition will kill them off. Their setups will still be targeted by Law Enforcement across the globe whilst authorised producers will be allowed to increase production.

Take a look at California and it use of the 'medicinal herb' Google it, it may surprise you.

OK lets do nothing, continue to allow these organisations to rake in billions, continue to fund a war against us.

Pointless discussion, really, as it will take a really strong government to implement such a policy. Never happen as we in the UK are a Class ruled society still governed by those with Edwardian ideals. Shame it wasn't Victorian as that era's government was one of the biggest 'drug gangs' in the world, even going to war with China over opium and gaining Hong Kong as a result

But my arguments for legalisation are echoed across society, top ranking Police Officers, government Scientists, etc are still regularly stating this fact. Ignored by many in middle class Britain with it's head in the sand.

Anyway let me tell you something 'our gang' is far bigger than 'their gang'

 

[suburbanreuben]

Trouble is, we don't know who their gang is. If we did, they wouldn't have a gang.

 

[Bram J]

OK lets do nothing, continue to allow these organisations to rake in billions, continue to fund a war against us.

No soldiers occupying my land...
If there was a war against us we would've probably diserved it too, for f***ing the middle east in the a** since WW2 :?
Who brought Sadam to power?
Who funded the Taliban?
Who funded Bin Laden?
Not drugs, but the West did that!
If you want to stop those extremists from hating us, we should maybe change our foreign 'neo-imperialistic' policies. You can't go around the world telling everybody what to do, making things worse (like err.. Iraq), installing dictators, overthrowing dictators and in general f***ing things up and then expect everyone to love you! It is hard to accept that 'Team America' is a far more realistic movie than 'Saving Private Ryan' :? .
War on terror = terror
War on Afghanistan=> fail.
War on Iraq=> fail.
I wonder very much where the West (US (and the UK also)) get their legitimacy to start stupid wars like this. Oh yeah I forgot: money first, people second... :cry:

I'm quite off topic here though, sorry 'bout that .

 

[KeepItSteel]

I may well be misaken, but didnt usage and drug related crime figures drop since liberalisation in Holland?

 

[Bram J]

I may well be misaken, but didnt usage and drug related crime figures drop since liberalisation in Holland?

There are no figures out there that prove this, or I really can't find them . There are total crime figures I found though, which seem to have grown over the past 3 years for as far as I know.
This supposedly crime-rate-drop is very often used as a defence for legalisation, and all sorts of figures are thrown around by all sorts of people :? . What the effect really was? I have no idea :? . I do know that drug-related crime rates in the Netherlands are NOT significantly lower than in other countries of the EU, they have a rather mediocre score...


-Drug abuse is a symptom of our culture in which fake and short term effects, shallowness and fear of the deep rule.-

 

[suburbanreuben]

I may well be misaken, but didnt usage and drug related crime figures drop since liberalisation in Holland?

Cannabis may be legal( or is it decriminalised-where are the greenhouses full of weed?), but I'm not sure about anything else. Anyone know?

 

[Bram J]

Cannabis is legalized, and also Paddo's (the mushroom trippy stuff that tastes like shit). There are also many pill-shaped synthetic drugs who are legal, but I have little knowledge of those :? .
Hard drugs, in any form, are illegal.
Cannabis can be bought in the so called 'coffee-shops', The pills and paddo's in 'smart-shops'.