Layback Seatpost

[MikeD]

A layback Thompson with the saddle only half way back on the rails = the same position as you could achieve with a straight post.

Except with the rails clamped in the middle and therefore considerably less likely to bend.

I don't know where people get this idea that layback posts are some sort of weird new-fangled innovation that's used to extend cockpits. They've been around for ever. You could make a strong case for inlines only having come about in the first place because they're easier to make...

It's almost as odd as the idea that Cotics are "mass produced". 100 or so at a time is not mass produced

 

[Huntso]

100 at a time isn't exactly individually made either

Sure if the order was there the factory could just as easily knock out a thousand for the next container load.
Just seem rather pricy to me and obviously others for what they are,clever marketing though

 

[Wold Ranger]

Cotic

Cost will be very low and really is a bit of a rip off. After all it's only a production line Hardtail, not like a DeKerf or Groovy etc. On one and plenty of others sell virtually the same type of frame for a lot less. You can get a Taiwanese Ti hardtail for the same money now.

 

[MikeD]

100 at a time isn't exactly individually made either Smile

I'll grant you that.

Sure if the order was there the factory could just as easily knock out a thousand for the next container load.

They could, and they'd charge less per unit, and the retail price would drop. Which is exactly my point - the price reflects the production volumes. The one-offs of which you're so enamoured ;-) would cost two or three times as much.

Just seem rather pricy to me and obviously others for what they are,clever marketing though

I think they're pretty respectable value, considering that Cotic only recently became a two-person operation.

Cost will be very low and really is a bit of a rip off.

What, because they sell to the public for more than they cost to make? Wouldn't be a very sound business plan to do it some other way.

After all it's only a production line Hardtail, not like a DeKerf or Groovy etc.

In design terms it's the match of anything.

On one and plenty of others sell virtually the same type of frame for a lot less.

The "others" are usually made of generic tubing that doesn't have to travel so far and is cheaper to start with. The Cotic is 853.

You can get a Taiwanese Ti hardtail for the same money now.

Where? Not having a go, I'm genuinely not aware of any £420 Ti hardtails.

 

[letmetalktomark]

Not sure where this is going......certainly not down the layback post route :roll:

However noticed this from Huntso earlier......

I prefer alu frames anyway

Burn the witch! :twisted: :twisted:



Only kidding

 

[Wold Ranger]

Cotic

When I say rip off, its not the fact we all need to make a profit, I accept that, it's the level of profit which is ITOO 300 percent. The finish on the frames I have seen are poor, plenty of weld splash and shoddy paint. Pricewise an On One is £249, a Dialled Bikes £240 a Sirius £199, a Genesis £340 and Rock Lobster £299, Orange Prestige £340 all made from 853 or similar in the same factories. If you go up to a Curtis for £650 ish, it will be made to measure, any colour and guaranteed for life unconditionally and hand made in Britain. There are currently Ti hard tails available direct from Taiwanese makers at £420, often see these on Ebay. I would't attempt to put a Cotic in the same sentence as a DeKerf or Curtis,(even though I just have ) never mind the same league. Most of the reviews comment that the Cotic is a good ride, but finish is only average and the price is too expensive for what it is. I would agree with this.

 

[Huntso]

To surmise then

I use a layback post on all my bikes which are exclusively alu and even worse predominately made by Specialized :shock:
Burning is probably too good for me really

Have had a fair few steel frames including a 853 Explosif,Clockwork etc never much liked the wriggly snake feel of them and much prefer the more direct rigid beer can frames

If I were to buy another steel frame it most certainly would not be a Cotic especially as it has a distinct Kona style geometry which I also find not the best for me (and its too bloody pricy )
Funny enough saw a big debate whether a layback post should be used with them

As in all of the above, just rider preference and thank heavens for that otherwise there would be just one model of bike for us all

 

[MikeD]

When I say rip off, its not the fact we all need to make a profit, I accept that, it's the level of profit which is ITOO 300 percent.

That's not profit, that's margin. Out of that has to come all the other costs of running the business. Anything left is the profit. If Cotics were a rip-off then I doubt that the owner would be living in a modest house in Sheffield and driving a second-hand car.

Pricewise an On One is £249, a Dialled Bikes £240

Both generic Taiwan-made tubing. The Dialled is labelled as Reynolds, but Reynolds 520 is a licensed tubeset, all Reynolds supplies is the sticker.

Sirius £199 I see £225 here. Also not 853. And bear in mind that some of these companies are run as sidelines by people with "proper" jobs and therefore don't need to make as much margin. Which I grant you isn't something likely to worry the consumer, but it's a fact nonetheless.

Genesis £340 and Rock Lobster £299, Orange Prestige £340 all made from 853 or similar in the same factories

All with greater buying power, one way or another. Do you think the margins on these are any less?

If you go up to a Curtis for £650 ish, it will be made to measure, any colour and guaranteed for life unconditionally and hand made in Britain.

Be fair, and compare like with like. An 853 Curtis XC is £849. Plus postage.

There are currently Ti hard tails available direct from Taiwanese makers at £420, often see these on Ebay.

You're shitting me. You're comparing a frame designed in Britain by a very experienced rider and engineer and built from top-quality tubing to something the provenance of which you know exactly nothing? Given £420 to spend, I know where I'd be spending it and it wouldn't be ebay.

Aaaaaanyway. Layback posts, then. I do find it funny that these days the "default setting" is inline and everyone frets about the effects of layback (and even funnier when they assume that the only layback post you can get is the bent Thomson) when not ever so many years ago every bike came with a single-bolt layback post and people fretted about the effects of putting one of these new-fangled inline posts on, that only started to get made because the tiny companies making them didn't have access to the tooling needed to make a robust forged head

 

[Andy R]

Well, there's one thing anyway - you guys have totally put me off getting a Cotic Soul to replace my RM Blizzard :roll:

You never see any of those Souls here so I've never had a chance to see one in the flesh so to speak, whereas RM's are as common as muck (well, I know of three at least and I own them all....)

Speaking of cost though - a Soul is relatively cheap compared to the ridiculous cost of a RM Blizzard frame for the same materials....

No - I don't use layback seatposts either

 

[one-eyed_jim]

Layback posts, then. I do find it funny that these days the "default setting" is inline and everyone frets about the effects of layback (and even funnier when they assume that the only layback post you can get is the bent Thomson) when not ever so many years ago every bike came with a single-bolt layback post and people fretted about the effects of putting one of these new-fangled inline posts on, that only started to get made because the tiny companies making them didn't have access to the tooling needed to make a robust forged head

Nobody talks about saddles either. Of course, if you put the same saddle on an inline post with the rails clamped in the same place, the saddle will be further forward than on an offset post. But modern saddles often have longer rails than those we used to ride (compare a classic Flite with an SLR) and it's pretty common to see an inline post with an SLR saddle jammed all the way back on its rails.