How do you tell the difference between Reynolds 853 and 653?

[MrW]

I think that LGF was trying to ascertain what his frame is made out of, rather than the weight difference..?

I was trying to give him a practical solution of how to do that, obviously the only true way to tell is to cut all the frame tubes in half and with a digital vernier measure the tube thicknesses :facepalm:

:shock:

 

[KermitGKona88]

Cut tubes you say....?

reaches for hacksaw..... :facepalm:

I was thinking more along the lines of an Angle grinder :!: :!: :!:

 

[bedraggled]

I thought I read somewhere that the Claud Butlers were made in Hull, with Bob Jackson being in Leeds it could well be the same builder did them both.
Obviously no help in deciding whether it's 653 or 853

 

[legrandefromage]

<drops grinder>

Hull you say? Hmmm. Plot thickens like cat gravy in a blender.

 

[KermitGKona88]

Re:

I remember that the 853 one upset some people as it was lugged, with a tubing made specifically for air hardening or some such guff........

'Cat gravy in a blender' The mind boggles

Any pictures of the British Eagle yet

 

[legrandefromage]

Pics of the Eagle tomorrow

 

[KermitGKona88]

Re:

 

[MrW]

The thick plottens....

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=178820

A Raleigh version I hear you say?? (almost certainly a re decaled CB)

Oh and I've just realised this bike has the same forks as my 'mystery' Raleigh: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=296953

 

[legrandefromage]

How did I miss this? Another cat for the blender! I too think the raleigh was a fake

Very suprised to see the Raleigh badged bike. When this Claud was made this frame was made in the factory in Brigg. It was not contracted out or bought in from far east. The only way there could be a Raleigh version is a total copy( which I am unaware of from that time) or its a respray/ rebage job;. Certainly Falcon never supplied any frames to Raleigh.

is that 100% ? I'm pretty sure that the CB one I had was made in Thailand (supplied with a made in Thailand sticker under the BB) I'd always assumed they were generic as I'm pretty sure I've seen a few with differing makes
a really really good frame . . . one of the best I've ever ridden

The Professional frame with the web type lugs was Brigg built in the Falcon frame shop. The factories in Thailand tended to Tig weld frames there was no lugged frames made in Thailand for CB. There were bikes assembled there but not this model. The logistics of getting small volumes of tube sets from Reynolds to a foreign maker and then shipped back again did not make commercial sense when this bike was in production and the Brigg frame shop was still making a lot of frames. It was only the advent of tig weld alloy that eroded the steel market and lead to the demise of the Falcon frame shop some years later. The frame number stamped in the bb will identify it as Brigg built. Falcon imported low end steel frames and later some of the basic Reynolds frames tig welded but the high end low volume was all built at the Brigg facility. If you have a lugged Reynolds steel made in Thailand Claud Butler professional please send some photos and a frame number as I would be keen to know its origin. Terry Bill of Reynolds supplied all the tube sets and the frames were built under the guidance of Pete White who was in charge of the frame shop at the time and had a full Reynolds 753 build cert. Puggy and Banger were in charge of making them straight and fault free.
It is quite possible you have seen similar frames to the Pro since this lug set could used by other makers, it was not exclusive to CB. The geometry would be different though. I am not aware or have ever seen any evidence that CB ever made any for other brands under contact. Capacity was stretched at the factory to meet their own demands.

 

[MrW]

How did I miss this? Another cat for the blender!

That's going to be some cocktail LGF...