Holdsworth Frame Numbers

t4tomo

Dirt Disciple
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Frame number 032285. pretty sure its 1981. Its a Mistral, Shimano 600 derailleurs & bar end shifters, which suggests it was bought as a frame set and built up by shop / purchaser?
 

anidel

Retro Guru
Going to pick this up this weekend


I'll post serial number and pics ASAP.

It looks like a late 40s La Quelda (48/49) in good shape and with parts matching the catalogue, Lytaloy headset, Allez cranks etc...
 

anidel

Retro Guru
Not bad at all!!

Serial 8853, which places it as 1948 La Quelda
 

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Gunboat_Diplomat

Retro Newbie
Just researching my Dads bike. Pretty sure its a Super Mistral as it has the Cinelli fork and wrap around stay and Prugnat Lugs.
He bought it in a sorry state, thrown in a coal shed, in approx 1980 and restored it. It was re-restored 20 years later. It is now in need of another.
It has had 40 years of pretty much daily use plus touring cycling, he ran school YHA trips, as well as occasional group rides. Not used so much over the last few years. The bottom bracket only has 3 digits stamped on it. Is this lug number or is it a shop built 1970 Super Mistral.??

The Brooks saddle is no more, nor the Stronglight TA Chainset. Rear Mech certainly changed.
On the second restoration band cable top tube clamps replaced with braze on.
The Campag Hubs and Carradice saddle bag remain (just on the saddle bag)...
Frame Number? 621 Now in its next, lighter, BlueHold-2.JPGHold-1.JPG


Hope this is of interest.

David
 

dwscrimshaw

Retro Guru
Nice looking bike, bit difficult to ID, could do with close ups of the lug work and rear brake bridge. Holdsworth used 4 digit numbers in the early 60's and seemed to again in early 70's. For numbers below 1000 there were 3 digit without a leading zero, so I assume this is from one of these groups. Your bike looks 70's or even 80's, but if 80's it would have the Holdsworth 6 digit number. So I am thinking if it has a straight brake bridge it might be from the 70's group. As this group ran in parallel with the std factory 5 digit system it seems to be used for contract builds by Holdsworth for other firms/shops or under licence builds of Holdworth frames by other shops. there were several number systems in the early 70's that all got replaced by the std. 6 digit system in 1976, see attached chart. The location of the number is different to most 70's 4 digit numbers I have seen, but may not be significant.

As for the model I don't think this is a Mistral as that model had distinctive head lugs which look different to yours. It also had a wrap over seat stay attachment, until later in 80's, which I can't see clearly in your picture. That said the super did have a similar fork crown. I have attached some details all of which can be seen here. http://nkilgariff.com/HoldsModelPages/Mistral.htm & http://nkilgariff.com/Models.htm. Also most of the factory built models in the early 70's seemed to retain the brazed on cable stops on the side of the top tube from earlier models before these were removed completely. like yours, in late 70's/80's. Its difficult to pinpoint an exact model, but has all he hallmarks of a good quality frame so could be a contract clone of various Holdsworth models either built by them for someone else or built under licence from them.

Hope this helps, more pictures might help.
 

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Gunboat_Diplomat

Retro Newbie
Nice looking bike, bit difficult to ID, could do with close ups of the lug work and rear brake bridge. Holdsworth used 4 digit numbers in the early 60's and seemed to again in early 70's. For numbers below 1000 there were 3 digit without a leading zero, so I assume this is from one of these groups. Your bike looks 70's or even 80's, but if 80's it would have the Holdsworth 6 digit number. So I am thinking if it has a straight brake bridge it might be from the 70's group. As this group ran in parallel with the std factory 5 digit system it seems to be used for contract builds by Holdsworth for other firms/shops or under licence builds of Holdworth frames by other shops. there were several number systems in the early 70's that all got replaced by the std. 6 digit system in 1976, see attached chart. The location of the number is different to most 70's 4 digit numbers I have seen, but may not be significant.

As for the model I don't think this is a Mistral as that model had distinctive head lugs which look different to yours. It also had a wrap over seat stay attachment, until later in 80's, which I can't see clearly in your picture. That said the super did have a similar fork crown. I have attached some details all of which can be seen here. http://nkilgariff.com/HoldsModelPages/Mistral.htm & http://nkilgariff.com/Models.htm. Also most of the factory built models in the early 70's seemed to retain the brazed on cable stops on the side of the top tube from earlier models before these were removed completely. like yours, in late 70's/80's. Its difficult to pinpoint an exact model, but has all he hallmarks of a good quality frame so could be a contract clone of various Holdsworth models either built by them for someone else or built under licence from them.

Hope this helps, more pictures might help.
Hi

Thanks for the reply. More pictures on the way courtesy of Dad of the requested areas. From memory the brake bridge is curved but the photos should prove one way or the other.
The bike was bought as a frame and handlebars with the only other feature being the Holdsworth headbadge (the only identifying feature at the time). It definitely has the wrap over stay with light engraving and Cinelli Sloping crown forks. When I started looking last year I was happy the lugs matched the Prugnat ones used on the Super Mistral.
I would assume the bike has to be at least early seventies as it was second hand (and had to be rebuilt) in the early 1980's... my memory is fuzzy regarding exact dates. This photo would have been taken in around 1990 as it is from a set taken with my 531 Coventry Eagle racing bike stolen in 1992 sob..... and prior to the Holdsworth's second rebuild and respray.

More info to follow.

All the Best

David
 

Gunboat_Diplomat

Retro Newbie
Hi @dwscrimshaw

As promised a few photos.

Curved Bridge, Wrap over Stay & Head Badge and Lower lug only (sorry!)
Whilst not clear I am sure the stay is engraved...
The bike is being handed down to me so will be regularly ridden again.
Will probably be looking at another renovation this winter (by me)
Any recommendations for useable period replacement stuff gratefully received.
I assume looking at the flyers etc it would be Record throughout...
All the Best

David
 

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