Help! Judy XC Internal Issue

[Nem]

Hi

I'm hoping someone will have a solution to this now annoying problem.

I've got a late 97' GT Zaskar which has a Judy XC (63mm version I believe) fitted. When I first had the bike I replaced the stock internals with a set of Mountain Speed Springs which were a medium weight and then the fork worked lovely. Fast forward 13 years to me trying to get back into riding after 10 years away and I'm a lot heavier and am bottoming the forks out.

So I ended up on ebay and found a set of very hard springs (over 200lbs, me being nearly 260lbs) from Wings Suspension and order them. They arrived and I had a big problem fitting them in that they were too long and stuck out the top of the forks, by about 30mm. After a lot of effort trying the push down the top caps and also screw them back in I managed it. The fork was then too hard but also had seemed to have lost a lot of the travel. I think that by already compressing the springs so much to get the caps on there wasn't that much left to compress to allow the fork to travel fully.

Anyway, I went back on ebay and found they also did the full replacement damper and spring units. Read up about the old plastic cartridges leaking and though after all this time mine might be worth replacing while I can still get the parts. So ended up ordering a set.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Damper-Kit-Steel- ... 20b45fdf55

Couple of issues with this kit, basically it has come with 5mm bolt attachments at the fork base and mine has 8mm ones. I've for now sourced a 5mm bolt and washer to allow me to fit it. I've since found a youtube video from this person saying about the late 97' year and 98' year forks being different with the 8mm bolts and I should have stated this when ordering the kit, even tho this wasn't mentioned on ebay at all.

The fork now feels dead, the rebound it far to slow and the fork make a very loud metallic noise when it tops out. Also sounds scratchy when almost down at full compression, and then also can be bottomed out with another crashing sound. It's basically unrideable as it it. There was a note in with the kit saying that the new damper unit can take up to 200 miles of usage to bed in, so that might help, but I can see my riding anywhere one it let alone 200 miles. Also it seemed that by just sitting on the bike make the fork sag at least a third of the total travel and it then went back up and topped out with a crash when you get off.

Tonight I started looking at the original damper unit and thought I might cut my losses and put it all back to how it was. The damper unit I have is actually an alloy cased one and not plastic like the ones known to fail. Except when I started to clean it up I did find oil around the lower seals. I wiped it all away and pushed the shaft through the damper a few times, when the whole thing exploded and relieved itself of all the oil inside over the floor.

So to sum up, I can put it back to how it was as the old damper unit is now shafted. The new parts so far appear to be useless and I'm still awaiting a response to an email I've sent to Wings Suspension about all these problems.

Anyone got any bright ideas? The bike and fork really are in immaculate condition which is why I was trying to just replace the internals and not move to a modern fork. But it's looking like that might be the only answer.

Thanks for reading.

Nick

 

[chrisv40]

Hello Nick & welcome, cant really help you myself but if he hasnt answered this thread by tomorrow evening send Fluffychicken a pm, he is a Rock Shox guru and has fixed 2 pairs of Judy's of mine recently. He should have some good suggestions for you

 

[Nem]

Thanks

 

[FluffyChicken]

If all fails I may buy some things of you... like them springs and bust damper pieces

The scratching with the wings kit (not had one so only a guess) could be the springs rubbing on the inside of the forks, they come with a mesh and that should wedge them in, but you still need to grease them up.
After awhile it should fade. Have you turned the damper adjuster (bottom of leg with allen key) to increase damping and increased the pre load to stop the sag. Could just the the springs are not hard enough

Though if you put the 5mm version in the 8mm then it'll not be seated properly in the bottom of the leg ? Will check for you
--
Back to the Wings springs...
Did you take the 'spacer' out before you tried to put the other springs in. The spacer is 1" long and the speed should be 6" long (so 7" in total.
is the replacement wing spring 7" or 6" long ? 30mm would be about that difference.


I'll check again tomorrow the length

P.S. What colour are the speed springs ?

 

[Nem]

There is no adjustment for the damping on the new unit from what I can see. Also I've tried the preload in the non damper leg full both ways and it make no difference.

I think the speed springs only had a tiny black spacer with them, like 3mm thick. The springs are 17cm long I think from measuring them earlier. The new springs are just over 19mm long.

The speed springs are red in colour.

Thanks.

 

[Nem]

Might be a silly question, but the standard damper unit which exploded last night, could that be cleaned up and refilled and sealed up again? I found a pdf about the '97 cartridge which basically describes this process.

Thanks.

Nick

 

[spacehopper]

it depends how it exploded.. and if any of the seals blew during the explosion..

but yes with a bit of care they can be serviced and refilled with oil..

the trick is to use a little bit of an elastic band (or something similar that can be slowly pulled out afterwards) wedged between the seal and the damper shaft to create a gap for the excess oil to escape as you push the seal back in.

oh.. and i ordered a wings kit for my judy fork from the same guy and got sent one for a manitou fork instead.. the aftersales service was appalling to say the least.. eventually got my money back, but not after a lot of hassle!

 

[Anthony]

I have heard of other people having similar problems with Mr Wings' product, despite his claim to the contrary in his eBay ad. Somebody on here did at least manage to get their money back eventually.

There is another eBay seller called Aeroquick who sells good products, but unfortunately he has no Risse cartridges at present and told me he needed to find a new supplier but hadn't found one yet. He also sells Kronos springs, which is the same as the Speed spring.

You may be able to refill and rebuild your existing alloy cartridge, although I don't like the sound of your 'explosion'. LTS Biker on here is a Rockshox mechanic and I think he would be able to advise you, especially if you sent him pictures.

Having said all that, the Judy is quite a flexy fork anyway, and if you weigh 260lbs you may well be far better off with a more modern fork. I think the Fox Float came out in 2002 and that set the standard for 32mm stanchions (yours are 28mm). Most modern forks have no canti mounts, but you might find that an early Fox Float would suit the Zaskar well and would be a much better bet for you than a Judy could ever be.

 

[Nem]

I'm going to fully clean and inspect the old damper unit tonight. When I said it exploded I think basically the end seal (bottom one) came out down the shaft, but it went with a bit of a pop and with the obvious oil all over the place. So I'm hoping with it all cleaned and refilled I can just fit it all back together and push this seal back in?

If all else fails and I do need to look for a new fork I'm so far assuming that, it would need to be 80mm or less travel so not to upset the geometry of the bike, (or would 100mm be ok)? definitely needs v-brake mounts, and I'm assuming a 1 1/8 steerer tube for the Zaskar?

 

[FluffyChicken]

I think a Bomber of the late 90's would make a good fork for you and you should be able to sell the Judy parts on if you needed so don't dump them.

That's if you want to keep in the same era of forks. They are springs, oil, stiffer and plusher people say.
And you can still buy all the parts for them.

But try and fix them first


Take some pictures while your at it.