Help identifying this frame

[gvsykes]

I recently bought a frame and was hoping to get some help identifying who the manufacturer was as well as a specific year of manufacture. Attached is an image of the frame itself which I believe to be a Condor Italia. There is also information of the bottom of the BB shell which reads:

Cinelli S.C
Made in Italy
2080

This seems to make sense that is a Condor Italia frame. The information provided when I purchased the frame is as follows:

CONDOR ROAD FRAME 24.5in c1980
Rear Dropout width: 125mm
Wheel size: 700C with brake drop of 47mm
Frame Tubing: Reynolds 531 double butted
Seatpost size: 27.2mm

Condor frames were built by a number of different framebuilders in the 1970s and early 80s - Vic Edwards (Rondinella, Rory O’Brien etc.), Chas Roberts Senior, Tom Board, Dave Yates and I suspect others. I would not be certain about this frame - the frame carries the number 2080 - it could well be an early Dave Yates built one.

I have contacted both Dave Yates and Condor Cycles themselves but neither had any idea about the frame and the serial number format was not familiar to them.

Any help identifying this frame would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Midlife]

Italia's usually had Condor panto'd on the seat stay caps by then. What makes you think it's a Condor?

 

[gvsykes]

Italia's usually had Condor panto'd on the seat stay caps by then. What makes you think it's a Condor?

Interesting. The only reasons I believe it is a Condor frame is that "Condor" is written in permanent marker on the BB shell and that it was listed as a Condor frame by Hilary Stone on his website and he appears to know his stuff.

I have been looking at some Italia's from the 80s and they have similar shaped lugs but without the cutout sections like my frame's lugs have. I'm perplexed by the frame number as it doesn't seem to follow the Condor Italia system so like you, I am questioning whether it is even a Condor frame.

I am going to get in touch with Cinelli to see if they can shed any light on the issue. I believe the SC stands for either Super Corsa or Special Corsa. I have read that the Condor Italia's lugs were styled on the Cinelli Super Corsa (http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/de ... ondor.html) so that sort of checks out.

 

[Midlife]

Hilary Stone generally gets stuff right, is there anything stamped on the fork steerer column?

 

[gvsykes]

Hilary Stone generally gets stuff right, is there anything stamped on the fork steerer column?

Only the matching frame number of 2080 along the steerer tube and "REYNOLDS 531 BUTTED 16/13" around the circumference close to the crown race.

I have also managed to narrow down the lugs to one of two options:
- Prugnat S4
- Bocama Competition 83

Just trying to see if Condor or Cinelli ever used these types of lugs. Condor say that all their frames are built in Italy.

 

[Midlife]

I would have expected that 80's frame to have been built here ? I guess the dropouts are Portacatena.

 

[gvsykes]

I would have expected that 80's frame to have been built here ? I guess the dropouts are Portacatena.

You could be right, I am just not sure really. I have found a brochure from 1981 that says the Condor Italia used Prugnat lugs so I am slowly getting somewhere. (http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/C ... Cycles.pdf)

I don't have the frame at the moment as it is getting refurbished but from the photo I think you could be correct about the Portacatena.

I read that Bill Hurlow made Condor frames up until 1968 but his shop/company carried on making them into the 80s. Although it doesn't have classic Hurlow fancy lugs.

 

[Midlife]

I wonder if the catalogue is earlier, the pictures of the kit is 70's, crane rear mech for example?

The other problem is that unless the frame was bought from pre-built stock the buyer could mix and match some of the features do it wouldn't always look like the brochure. Which is why frame numbers are so useful.

Damn fine looking frame though

 

[gvsykes]

I wonder if the catalogue is earlier, the pictures of the kit is 70's, crane rear mech for example?

The other problem is that unless the frame was bought from pre-built stock the buyer could mix and match some of the features do it wouldn't always look like the brochure. Which is why frame numbers are so useful.

Damn fine looking frame though

She is gorgeous, that's why I am trying to get as much info on her as possible so that the restoration can do the history justice.

I think the frame was made by Cinelli but for Condor. I just came across this article: http://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.co.uk/2 ... rowns.html

Which shows the fork crowns. I believe mine is the SC version (70's-80's) so your knowledge of 70's kit is probably spot on there.

These fully-sloping designs were a Cinelli mainstay.

 

[Midlife]

I'm not sure Condor would have contracted from Cinelli, someone like Mike Kowal / Autostrada etc would have done the job cheaper and just as nice. Fully sloping crowns hung in there for a long time on UK frames despite the MC taking over on the style front. Can't beat a chromed fully sloping crown