F1 Powertrains and more exciting races?

[Neil]

Other random thoughts:

Citroen ZX Volcane with the passive rear wobbly suspension, anyone remember those? It used to tuck in to aid on tight bends/ roundabouts

Wasn't there a Xantia that had active suspension?

 

[GSB]

There was. It was as technologicically advanced as a wood burning stove, and surpassed in nastiness by only the transverse leaf springs fitted to old corvettes and triumph spitfires. Ugh.

 

[Neil]

To be honest, anything that overhauls the tired no engine development formula can only be a positive. When I was a kid F1 was all about innovation and taking a chance on new unproven "outside the box" technologies.

Let's hope it means more failures. When I started watching F1 there were engine blow-ups all the time, last season I remember one in the last race or two (a Lotus?) but they are rare, presumably down to the reliability increasing over time. A wee shake up might help.

I don't know jack about the tech, I watch to see overtaking, crashing, rain and safety cars. Do a rain dance, bring back gravel traps, anything to sort the wheat (Alonso) from the chaff (Vettel & Hamilton) . Ideally I want around half the cars finishing, rather than 95% like now.

Whilst over time I've come to appreciate Alonso as a great racing driver, I'd baulk at calling Vettel and Hamilton chaff. I'm fans of neither - especially Hamilton - but Vettel is fast, crushingly so - if anybody is going to be as dominant as Schumacher was, and look to threaten his records, Vettel looks to be that man.

And Hamilton? Whilst I'm far from a fan, he is fast, and wants to race. And bettered Alonso in Hamilton's first season. Now that's not me saying he's a better driver than Alonso - just pointint out, he's none to shabby. I do think he is, or at least has been overrated as something of the second coming - but all the same, he's got a turn of speed that none of the other brits seem able to live with. Rosberg is, rather fortunately, giving him a run for his money.

In fact, in recent times, Rosberg is the driver that's quietly impressed, really. Just doesn't always seem consistent - but then neither does Hamilton.

Hamilton always seems like his emotions have a bit impact on how he's doing - more so than other drivers. I'm unsure whether that's because he wears his heart on his sleeve more, or it just is. All the while, I think he's squandered some of the past few years, with his lifestyle and life outside formula 1 having a bearing / influence - or at least commanding some of his attention. Whether that's true, or unfair, who can really say - but the problem is, if it's giving off that impression, then he should really be knuckling down and forgetting about being a celeb. Compare and contrast with Vettel - keeps his private life as private as he can, looks to be uninterested in much of the trappings of celebrity, and really all you hear about him is how fast he's driving and how many races he's winning.

Both young, both fast, both groomed for stardom and with a fair amount of expectation on their shoulders. Both dealing with it, in apparently different ways. And there's quite a disparity in results - some of that will be down to team / car, but Hamilton has had plenty of opportuinity with his first team in F1.

Is it all just the talent, or is some of it the preparation. Has Vettel learnt to be the natural successor to Schumacher and his work ethic, and focus?

Alonso? He always seems on it, and always seems to be getting about the most out of what he's got - and I think that's why I've gone from being no particular fan of his, in earlier times, to appreciating him in recent years.

 

[Neil]

To be honest, anything that overhauls the tired no engine development formula can only be a positive. When I was a kid F1 was all about innovation and taking a chance on new unproven "outside the box" technologies. These days, it's more about trying to extract the tiniest advantage out of a loophole in the regs whilst hoping Ferrari don't go complaining about it to the FIA.

Money, money, money has always changed the game. And the problem was perception and new blood - it was becoming prohibitive for any other teams to consider replacing vacant seats. Plus, they had to be seen to be being contemporary, innit (did I say that right?) in order to show that they got the general economic climate, and were sympathetic towards it. So the diamond encrusted nose cones had to go...

And as to complaints, I very much doubt Ferrari have exclusivity, there.

This season, they finally scraped the barrel of tedium with the "coanda" exhaust. You need to have studied fluid dynamics to understand it, and then you'll find it's the most boring performance add on in decades...

That may well be, but the things they do for performance, aren't meant to be exciting - they're meant to do what's on the tin - improve performance. Commentators rapping on about them, may make it a rather dry subject, but all the same, we expect those closer than us to have some informed debate on the subject.

F1 now has about as much relevance to road cars as it does to cycling, so I think they should be allowed to explore the full spectrum of engineering tech to bring some excitement back. Gas turbines, multi wheel drive, active aero etc... Bring it on, just so long as the driver, and his skills, remain a key part of the equation.

I'm not sure F1 has ever had much real relevance to road cars - I think any suggestions were really just afterthoughts, or mediocre PR.

As to the madcap ideas, well they're tempered by big business, money and accountability - plus what appears to be a whole deal more industry in micro-managing what the teams can produce, and smoothing out the curve if one of them does truly innovate or find some loophole.

Agreed about the tyres, though - like many, I want to see drivers drive fast, not drive at 80% and be good at "managing" the situation or multi-tasking.

As to the gearbox / DSG thing - well I wasn't trying to suggest that either F1, nor VW (who in turn used a transmission company) copied each other, merely that clearly there's some relationship / influence, there. Both preselect other ratios, and use dual wet plate clutches, and both are computer controlled, hydraulically actuated gearboxes. Yes, no doubt, there's differences in implementation - but both use logic and input to preselect the next ratio, in order to make the gear-change as swift and as uninterrupting to power delivery to the wheel as is possible / serviceable.

Of course, no matter how boring it is, I always seem to be dragging myself out of bed at silly o clock to watch the Asian GP's...

Whether it's changes in F1, or me, I'm not sure, but my enthusiasm has waned. Long gone are the days I get up stupid-o-clock to watch it. I do watch every race, mind - but the interest isn't quite what it was.

 

[Tazio]

Tracking back ABS came from the aircraft industry, as did innovations like fuel injection and disc brakes.

 

[technodup]

To be honest, anything that overhauls the tired no engine development formula can only be a positive. When I was a kid F1 was all about innovation and taking a chance on new unproven "outside the box" technologies.

Let's hope it means more failures. When I started watching F1 there were engine blow-ups all the time, last season I remember one in the last race or two (a Lotus?) but they are rare, presumably down to the reliability increasing over time. A wee shake up might help.

I don't know jack about the tech, I watch to see overtaking, crashing, rain and safety cars. Do a rain dance, bring back gravel traps, anything to sort the wheat (Alonso) from the chaff (Vettel & Hamilton) . Ideally I want around half the cars finishing, rather than 95% like now.

Whilst over time I've come to appreciate Alonso as a great racing driver, I'd baulk at calling Vettel and Hamilton chaff. I'm fans of neither - especially Hamilton - but Vettel is fast, crushingly so - if anybody is going to be as dominant as Schumacher was, and look to threaten his records, Vettel looks to be that man.

And Hamilton? Whilst I'm far from a fan, he is fast, and wants to race. And bettered Alonso in Hamilton's first season. Now that's not me saying he's a better driver than Alonso - just pointint out, he's none to shabby. I do think he is, or at least has been overrated as something of the second coming - but all the same, he's got a turn of speed that none of the other brits seem able to live with. Rosberg is, rather fortunately, giving him a run for his money.

In fact, in recent times, Rosberg is the driver that's quietly impressed, really. Just doesn't always seem consistent - but then neither does Hamilton.

Hamilton always seems like his emotions have a bit impact on how he's doing - more so than other drivers. I'm unsure whether that's because he wears his heart on his sleeve more, or it just is. All the while, I think he's squandered some of the past few years, with his lifestyle and life outside formula 1 having a bearing / influence - or at least commanding some of his attention. Whether that's true, or unfair, who can really say - but the problem is, if it's giving off that impression, then he should really be knuckling down and forgetting about being a celeb. Compare and contrast with Vettel - keeps his private life as private as he can, looks to be uninterested in much of the trappings of celebrity, and really all you hear about him is how fast he's driving and how many races he's winning.

Both young, both fast, both groomed for stardom and with a fair amount of expectation on their shoulders. Both dealing with it, in apparently different ways. And there's quite a disparity in results - some of that will be down to team / car, but Hamilton has had plenty of opportuinity with his first team in F1.

Is it all just the talent, or is some of it the preparation. Has Vettel learnt to be the natural successor to Schumacher and his work ethic, and focus?

Alonso? He always seems on it, and always seems to be getting about the most out of what he's got - and I think that's why I've gone from being no particular fan of his, in earlier times, to appreciating him in recent years.

FFS you don't half take things on! Chaff to me just meant I don't like them.

I like Alonso. I like his first lap overtakes, his fearless long way round passes, his wheel to wheel at 180 up Eau Rouge. I like the way he says 'ameelton' and the way he makes 4:27 sound like a threat http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/25035783.

Vettel is a cocky wee dick. Finger wagging, car naming, multi 21 abusing twat. If I was Webber I'd have knocked him out several times.

Hamilton is just a knob. Occasionally fast knob but petulant, and not as good as he thinks/thought/was hyped by the BBC. The McLaren year clearly didn't work for Alonso as he thought it would but how much of that is backroom stuff we don't know.

I don't dispute they can both drive cars fast. But in a crap car Hamilton is nowhere and Vettel has yet to be seen (unless we count Toro Rosso). Alonso gets on with it and drags a poor car to second place three years out of four.

My favourite moment of the last few years other than Alonso was Vettel spinning in the wet for Button to win from last place. And I doubt I'm alone in that. GIRFUY Seb.

 

[Neil]

FFS you don't half take things on! Chaff to me just meant I don't like them.

You could have just wrote that, then, rather than trying to be poetic, but fucking it up.

Wheat / chaff - well I hope I don't have to explain what people normally mean.

Which is why I replied like I did - it's one thing to simply not like other drivers, but describing them as chaff in comparison to Alonso supposedly being "wheat" looks a bit stupid.

I like Alonso...

I've come to like Alonso too.

Vettel is a cocky wee dick. Finger wagging, car naming, multi 21 abusing twat. If I was Webber I'd have knocked him out several times.

Perhaps - but maybe Webber has the humility to realise that Vettel is just simply a better "pedaller" than he is. Sometimes there's no denying it. I'm no fan of Vettel, either - I suspect, like Schumacher, I'll probably appreciate him more later in his career. I also disliked him for ignoring team orders, especially when he'd most likely want them imposing when it suited.

But rare is the man (us all included) who's not a rank, fucking hypocrite on occasion.

All the same, he's undeniably fast. And whilst dominating in the best car isn't necessarily proof that he'd excel in other cars as much, Webber has a turn of speed at times.

Hamilton is just a knob. Occasionally fast knob but petulant, and not as good as he thinks/thought/was hyped by the BBC. The McLaren year clearly didn't work for Alonso as he thought it would but how much of that is backroom stuff we don't know.

Again, no real argument against your comments re: Hamilton - again, I'm no fan. But he is fast, compared to anybody he's been teammates with. And regardless of what was going on at McLaren - especially towards the end of that season, Alonso was no rookie, was a 2 x WDC, and doesn't appear to be the most emotionally fragile driver that needs a comforting arm around the shoulder to cheer him up.

A rookie bested him that year - regardless of the politics, and by that point, he was an experienced 2 x WC - I doubt whatever they felt about Alonso towards the end of the season, they wanted anything other than as many points as possible.

I don't dispute they can both drive cars fast. But in a crap car Hamilton is nowhere and Vettel has yet to be seen (unless we count Toro Rosso). Alonso gets on with it and drags a poor car to second place three years out of four.

Here's the thing - were all three in decent cars that could compete on a level playing field, you'd expect them all to be fighting for the WDC.

As for Vettel - his year of challenge, really, was 2010. He saw off Webber - perhaps team politics assisted with that, but whether, or not, he has dominated Webber ever since. But for most of that year, it was far from clear cut - Webber was ahead for most of that season. That, clearly was the turning point - did Webber's chin drop, did Vettel evolve, did the team environment become very clear cut? If it was just the team thing, why did Webber stay - I don't think he was under a 4 year contract at the time.

There's all sorts of reasons why all sorts of people dislike drivers - Schumacher was clearly an example of that in his F1 days. Thing is, doesn't make sense to let that emotion spill over to become rather inaccurate slights on their driving chops, purely because you don't like them. I've preferred plenty of drivers over the years, but been under no illusion that either my favourites have been so because they were necessarily the best driver(s).

 

[technodup]

FFS you don't half take things on! Chaff to me just meant I don't like them.

You could have just wrote that, then, rather than trying to be poetic, but fucking it up.

I don't know about poetry but I do know the difference between written and wrote.

 

[Neil]

FFS you don't half take things on! Chaff to me just meant I don't like them.

You could have just wrote that, then, rather than trying to be poetic, but fucking it up.

I don't know about poetry but I do know the difference between written and wrote.

FPWM.

But you are missing the wood for the trees.

 

[Retro Cat]

Think I'll watch highlights on the Iplayer thingy