Diet / nutrition - some more help required

[TGR]

Afternoon all,

This post relates to my exercise thread - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=311262

I have been reading up on diets and nutrition - based on the fact I have started exercising. I have a reasonable idea of what types of food I should be eating etc. and I am planning to do some calorie counting for a few weeks until I get a bit more knowledgeable about what is good and what is bad; and, more specifically, what amounts of food I can eat - portion sizes etc.

Most places I have looked ask about weight loss and weight gain, my preference would be to move the weight from fat into muscle although I am not so sure it is as easy as I think it will be. I could lose some weight (ie fat) and regain it as muscle but I have not got much of an idea how this actually works.

The problem I have run up against is that I do not know what my intake should be. I have seen plenty of calculators but they seem to provide various / random figures. If anyone could advise, I would appreciate it.

My details - 46 years old (47 in Jan), 6 feet tall, current weight 86kg (around 13 st 5lbs), exercising 4 days per week - YAYOG workout for 4 sessions and then footie and squash and turbo (time permitting)(and body permitting). Total time for footie and squash per week would be around 3 hours 30 mins.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Richard

 

[Neil]

Afternoon all,

This post relates to my exercise thread - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=311262

I have been reading up on diets and nutrition - based on the fact I have started exercising. I have a reasonable idea of what types of food I should be eating etc. and I am planning to do some calorie counting for a few weeks until I get a bit more knowledgeable about what is good and what is bad; and, more specifically, what amounts of food I can eat - portion sizes etc.

Most places I have looked ask about weight loss and weight gain, my preference would be to move the weight from fat into muscle although I am not so sure it is as easy as I think it will be. I could lose some weight (ie fat) and regain it as muscle but I have not got much of an idea how this actually works.

There's lots of theories, but not a great deal of empiricism, but a reasonable amount of experience in the whole concept of what is "best" for body recomposition.

As a generalism (ignoring the "newbie" effect, drugs, surgery, or those that are just genetically blessed in terms of natural hormone levels and "partitioning") you gain weight and you'll gain some muscle and some fat (all other things being largely equal). Same when you lose weight - you'll tend to lose some muscle, as well as some bodyfat.

There are techniques and other things that can be brought to bear - those looking to get leaner, and being mindful of many of the rationales currently extolled by body recomp experts, in terms of preserving as much lbm / muscle, whilst losing weight (largely to do with stimulus - ie resistance training, and macronutrients in the diet - protein being muscle sparing).

Other than diet contents and stimulus, though, and it's genes really, that are a big factor (predominantly to do with favourable partitioning and hormone levels) that distinguishes between those people that are naturally predisposed to gain muscle, notably, when they gain weight, and those that would more naturally gain bodyfat, and those sort of in the middle. And much the same applies for weight loss.

Which tips the wink as to why anabolic steroids (among other performance enhancing drugs) are heavily used in bodybuilding and other strength related sports - and not just those, really. Plenty of people who workout, and not necessarily with any degree of seriousness, use performance enhancing drugs, these days. Compared to the amount of usage in previous times (going back a bit, though) it's staggering how many and how easily many turn to PEDs.

The problem I have run up against is that I do not know what my intake should be. I have seen plenty of calculators but they seem to provide various / random figures. If anyone could advise, I would appreciate it.

My details - 46 years old (47 in Jan), 6 feet tall, current weight 86kg (around 13 st 5lbs), exercising 4 days per week - YAYOG workout for 4 sessions and then footie and squash and turbo (time permitting)(and body permitting). Total time for footie and squash per week would be around 3 hours 30 mins.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Richard

My advice for modest weight loss is to use your bodyweight in pounds, multiplied by 10 as your daily calorie count. Yes, activity has a bearing, but you can always tweak calories by 200, or so, in either direction, if it's either not doing the trick, or too drastic.

To then establish maintenance calories, it's largely going to be moderate (again, say by something like 200 at a time) increase in calories, until your weight stabilises.

Looking at your height and weight, you're probably not looking to lose loads of weight, so whether much of what most seem to think is the "best" approach - diet to ideal bodyfat, then gently gain weight to increase muscle mass - may not be that relevant, a gentle nudge in either direction, over time, with the increased activity / exercise, and cleaner diet, plus more conducive macro levels, I suspect is more optimal.

I always think least significant amounts of change are best, and more sustainable.

The slight problem(s) you've got, is (are) twofold: 1) you don't appear to have a need to lose a notable amount of weight, and 2) you realise that what you really want to do is recomposition, as opposed to drop a lot of weight. Which is more complex - and kinda goes full circle to the advice you'll normally get - diet to get lean, then clean bulk to gain a bit of muscle - because beyond benefiting from the "newbie" effect of being new-ish to exercises directly working your muscles, and without drugs, surgery, or genetics / hormone levels to die for, it's not really that productive to try and get leaner without much notable change in bodyweight.

My advice: try and establish a baseline whilst you're new to your exercise regime, after a while, you'll likely build up some notion of at what calorie level your weight is largely in equilibrium. Over that time, you'll probably find you have developed some degree of muscular development from the new stimulus, and hopefully, conducive diet content. Then once you're more in a steady state, you can then cycle between losing some weight if you want to reduce bodyfat, then increasing weight if you feel you want to increase muscular development.

 

[highlandsflyer]

I would take up bog snorkelling. Good old traditional weight lifting sounds like a plan, with a high protein diet.

 

[TGR]

Good morning,

Neil - thanks (yet again) for the detailed advice. I thought the calorie aspect would have been a bit easier but it was more complicated than i expected.

The diet section of YAYOG relates to building muscle which then uses more calories and with the increased metabolic rate, you can eat more. But, as with most of these workouts, they seem to work on reducing weight by a large amount and that is not what i require. Minimal loss of weight and perhaps complete removal of my mini-keg would be my aim. It promotes small amounts of food at regular intervals throughout the day. This is something i can normally manage but it does not mention night shifts! It does mention getting a good night's sleep - that is problematic when you are working.

Your weight x 10 for calorie intake works out at 1870 for me which is more than i have been consuming - according to my calculations so it leaves me with some wiggle room. Even after 4 days, i am managing to eat less and not feel hungry. Snacks include low fat cheese, jerky, nuts, fruit and nut and, the obvious, apple. I think that the snacks are the most important aspect as they are able to remove the hunger feeling. I did notice that i was not tired in work after lunch - that is unusual and a good thing. It might be working!

I have 4 consecutive days done and tomorrow will be a rest day (due to work). Might try bog snorkelling LOL

Thanks again - have a great weekend,

Richard

 

[Neil]

Don't think of my suggestion of 10 x bodyweight in pounds, as your target calorie count, as a hard and fast rule - it's a rough and ready approximation I use as a starting point - to then be tweaked up or down as to how the results come, really.

The scales tell the true story, ultimately - but when you're not looking to lose much weight, and more lose fat and gain some muscle - as I said before, it's more complex really, because outside of special circumstances (say limited periods where you're new to exercise that's directly taxing your muscles), it's a kinda magic that doesn't really tend to happen at the same time.

If you're happy where you are with calories, and finding yourself satiated, and you're making progress, then don't think you need to alter it on my suggestion - do it based on the results you realise. If everything is working for you at the moment, then continue as you are. After a while, though, and there will be some plateau - that's when you'll likely have to make some small changes.

 

[REKIBorter]

The simple answer is eat less - exercise more. Not the easiest of solutions though.

 

[Neil]

The simple answer is eat less - exercise more. Not the easiest of solutions though.

That simple answer is fine for people that just want to lose weight.

For people who don't want to lose weight, or not that much, but want to get leaner / recomp, rather unfortunately, it is more complex. Because the "newbie" magic doesn't last very long.

There are entire forums dedicated to body recomposition (as opposed to merely losing weight) - I can assure you, it's a subject that draws in a lot of science, and a reasonable degree of complexity to manage it.

 

[fjpshaw]

Reading this whilst destroying a chicken fajita pizza. FM it's good.

Orra best with your diet.