cyclist who knocked over and killed
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I believe this was all about contrition, or the lack of it.
argonsixar
Retro Guru
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I was run down (and over) by a transit. The driver got out and attacked me on the ground. Only my riding buddy standing between me and the driver avoided me being assaulted further. The attacker got three months in prison. He had attacked and hurt several people (with a hammer in at least one other case) over several years and always avoided jail as the other victims didnt press charges.
The point here is that a deliberate attacker, known to the police and courts was jailed for 3 months. No one died but they could have (I certainly could have). Compare that with the kid who ran into the lady. He was a fool, not a deliberate assaulter. 18 months in an institution will not "cure him" of criminal behaviour or even teach him any worthwhile lessons.
I was run down (and over) by a transit. The driver got out and attacked me on the ground. Only my riding buddy standing between me and the driver avoided me being assaulted further. The attacker got three months in prison. He had attacked and hurt several people (with a hammer in at least one other case) over several years and always avoided jail as the other victims didnt press charges.
The point here is that a deliberate attacker, known to the police and courts was jailed for 3 months. No one died but they could have (I certainly could have). Compare that with the kid who ran into the lady. He was a fool, not a deliberate assaulter. 18 months in an institution will not "cure him" of criminal behaviour or even teach him any worthwhile lessons.
Silvergoat
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That's awful. The van man should have got way more on that and lost any privilege to drive at all. Good job you had a mate with.
The kid who ran into the lady was an unwitting fool, at worst. No one seems to have taken on board that the lady he crashed into stepped out into the road in front of him without looking. I experience this kind of thing everyday I commute by bike throughout London and it puts the fear of god into my now, in case I can't avoid anyone on foot stepping out in front of me. People are impatient or too distracted now and if you're not a car, bus or truck, they take their chance with people riding bikes. I would also call for a reintroduction of a national programme of educating all people on road safety, not just imposing legislation and requirements solely on cyclists – people just don't how to cross roads safely these days.
argonsixar":2p1yj55f said:
That's awful. The van man should have got way more on that and lost any privilege to drive at all. Good job you had a mate with.
The kid who ran into the lady was an unwitting fool, at worst. No one seems to have taken on board that the lady he crashed into stepped out into the road in front of him without looking. I experience this kind of thing everyday I commute by bike throughout London and it puts the fear of god into my now, in case I can't avoid anyone on foot stepping out in front of me. People are impatient or too distracted now and if you're not a car, bus or truck, they take their chance with people riding bikes. I would also call for a reintroduction of a national programme of educating all people on road safety, not just imposing legislation and requirements solely on cyclists – people just don't how to cross roads safely these days.
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I think you are all missing the point.
The letter of the law is there and can be used as a very blunt instrument against those who refuse to acknowledge their wrongdoings and the effect they have had on others. The restorative justice system relies upon this and has been successful in some instances. Whilst not knowing the specifics surrounding this particular case, it is my suggestion that due to the consistently unreflective attitude of the young man, and his failure to acknowledge his wrongdoing or the effects thereof, those that dealt with him at the scene, interviewing him, the CPS preparing the case, trying him and deciding his sentence have felt it necessary to use the full letter of the law in an attempt alter his undoubtedly pugnacious stance. The charges, subsequent press releases and Judge's comments appear to reflect this.
I'm not sure what influence the victim's husband would or could have had throughout this process but I suspect that regardless, the outcome would have been the same given the perpetrator's obvious failure of the 'attitude test' which I can assure you exists from the start of the process and can massively influence the route an offence can take though the criminal justice system from that point forward.
I write from personal experience both as an advocate for guilty parties and those seeking to prosecute them.
Only my view for what it's worth. That's not to denigrate the views of others which are equally valid.
The letter of the law is there and can be used as a very blunt instrument against those who refuse to acknowledge their wrongdoings and the effect they have had on others. The restorative justice system relies upon this and has been successful in some instances. Whilst not knowing the specifics surrounding this particular case, it is my suggestion that due to the consistently unreflective attitude of the young man, and his failure to acknowledge his wrongdoing or the effects thereof, those that dealt with him at the scene, interviewing him, the CPS preparing the case, trying him and deciding his sentence have felt it necessary to use the full letter of the law in an attempt alter his undoubtedly pugnacious stance. The charges, subsequent press releases and Judge's comments appear to reflect this.
I'm not sure what influence the victim's husband would or could have had throughout this process but I suspect that regardless, the outcome would have been the same given the perpetrator's obvious failure of the 'attitude test' which I can assure you exists from the start of the process and can massively influence the route an offence can take though the criminal justice system from that point forward.
I write from personal experience both as an advocate for guilty parties and those seeking to prosecute them.
Only my view for what it's worth. That's not to denigrate the views of others which are equally valid.
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If the bike would have had brakes, he would have been able to stop or at least slow down enough to avoid serious injuries.groovyblueshed":3o1u0vui said:
Have you been in traffic lately? The majority of cyclists ARE lawless menaces. No wonder everyone hates us.groovyblueshed":3o1u0vui said:
M-Power
Old School Grand Master
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This lads bad attitude is a big part of why he received such a harsh (imo) sentence, compared to the plethora of people who drive with no license, mot, insurance, being banned, kill someone and quite often drive off. Even his mother seems to want him punishe harshly. His tatoo - wtf
Not got the details to hand atm but there is evidence that a front brake wouldnt have made significant or indeed any difference in his stopping distance, when reaction times etc are factored in. He still should have had one clearly to strengthen his case.
The solution is segregated cycleways ( with no pedestrians allowed to walk on them ) in inner cities and a campaign to make cyclists aware of the safety regulations, especially the yoof and tourists. Its gonna cost £Bs but there are no other options unless we go back to a pro car society.
Raging_Bulls":25s6051f said:
This lads bad attitude is a big part of why he received such a harsh (imo) sentence, compared to the plethora of people who drive with no license, mot, insurance, being banned, kill someone and quite often drive off. Even his mother seems to want him punishe harshly. His tatoo - wtf
Not got the details to hand atm but there is evidence that a front brake wouldnt have made significant or indeed any difference in his stopping distance, when reaction times etc are factored in. He still should have had one clearly to strengthen his case.
The solution is segregated cycleways ( with no pedestrians allowed to walk on them ) in inner cities and a campaign to make cyclists aware of the safety regulations, especially the yoof and tourists. Its gonna cost £Bs but there are no other options unless we go back to a pro car society.
Silvergoat
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I'm on my well-maintained bike in traffic most days. Have powerful brakes but it has been more down to quick reactions and taking evasive manoeuvres to avoid a collision that's saved everyone.
Have to say sadly that I do agree with you regarding more cyclists being lawless menaces and can see why the rest hate cyclists. More people are getting on to bikes but they don't necessarily know how to behave or have any understanding of the Highway Code. As a cyclist, I've actually experienced more rage, aggression and trouble from other people cycling than any other road user (I've highlighted this before), particularly when I have either slowed or stopped to let someone on foot complete their crossing of the road, or to allow someone driving to finish making a manoeuvre. I've experienced some real abuse for riding safe and showing consideration to other road users. I don't know why people are so savagely impatient these days.
Raging_Bulls":2ziv01nl said:
I'm on my well-maintained bike in traffic most days. Have powerful brakes but it has been more down to quick reactions and taking evasive manoeuvres to avoid a collision that's saved everyone.
Have to say sadly that I do agree with you regarding more cyclists being lawless menaces and can see why the rest hate cyclists. More people are getting on to bikes but they don't necessarily know how to behave or have any understanding of the Highway Code. As a cyclist, I've actually experienced more rage, aggression and trouble from other people cycling than any other road user (I've highlighted this before), particularly when I have either slowed or stopped to let someone on foot complete their crossing of the road, or to allow someone driving to finish making a manoeuvre. I've experienced some real abuse for riding safe and showing consideration to other road users. I don't know why people are so savagely impatient these days.
Silvergoat
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I don't think the continental approach that makes this sort of thing work translates to Britain. The new segregated cycleways in central London are little slices of dysfunctional hell, with many cyclists riding like they're competing in the TdF.
I don't think the continental approach that makes this sort of thing work translates to Britain. The new segregated cycleways in central London are little slices of dysfunctional hell, with many cyclists riding like they're competing in the TdF.
M-Power
Old School Grand Master
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Its a fair point....I just keep seeing videos of the NL and DK and it seems like cycling eutopia compared to the UK/London. Having been car doored thrice, run over once all by Jag drivers strangely and had a guy jump off a moving bus in TCR right in front of me....Il agree fast refexes are the best life saver.
Its just becoming a far more hostile world, we will just have to get used to it I guess.
groovyblueshed":336escd3 said:
Its a fair point....I just keep seeing videos of the NL and DK and it seems like cycling eutopia compared to the UK/London. Having been car doored thrice, run over once all by Jag drivers strangely and had a guy jump off a moving bus in TCR right in front of me....Il agree fast refexes are the best life saver.
Its just becoming a far more hostile world, we will just have to get used to it I guess.
