clockwork frame geometry

[clockworkgazz]

Please help me, I may be doubting the clockworks claim to ultimate retro bike of all time.

I have been comparing my 18 inch clockwork frame and the new genesis io and am amazed at the difference :shock: I know that the new bike is suspension fork adjusted but could not believe how low my stem and bars are on the orange compared to the same sized genesis. This is prob. not news to any of you, but I stopped paying attention to bikes in 1995.

The thing is ..........



I think I prefer the higher riding position with the genesis :roll: Until the new bike arrived on the scene, I didn't think there was anything wrong with the clockwork :evil: It now seems very low with to much weight over the front end- racing bike almost. I had been putting this down to stem lenght but now realize it is just the lower positioning at the front end.

I don't think I want to go down the large steerer and riser bar route, but have to say I would be less keen on taking her down glentress again now I have the genesis option- I suppose what I am asking from you guys is- Do I just have to live with an older bikes less comfy/more dangerous handling and feel or will my clockwork ride quicker and better on less demanding terrain and as such is still king of the hill?

answers on a postcard please.

 

[Andy R]

Have you got the rigid forks on the Genesis IO ? For a start they have an axle to crown length of 440mm compared to the forks on the Clockwork which are probably about 395mm. Plus maybe 10 or 15mm extra headtube length on the IO, and possibly 10 or 15mm of spacers under the stem. Add to that risers bars with 25mm rise and before you know it you could have around an extra 100mm of bar height relative to the saddle.

Of course (heresy content here !) you could always fit a shorter stem and risers to the Clockwork - there ain't no law against it yet

 

[OrangeRetro]

Bike design has come on in leaps and bounds over the last 10 years, riding styles have changed and modern bikes reflect this.

Retro bikes are great, a nice low down racey position, light, quick repsonsive, whilst the going is good.. riding them is fun..

But for Glentress.. Which I rode a few weeks ago, I would not even half consider riding it retro, apart form the fact that its a 6 hour drive so the thought of something failing on one of my older bikes is.. well unthinkable, my modern bike is a hoot to ride.. reliable and fast, with loads of braking power.

What I would definetly advise against is trying to make your retro ride more modern, It won't work, the geometry won't allow it. Your clockwork is cool, ride it when appropriate and enjoy the fun involved with riding your new bike!

 

[flyingwelshman]

Bike design has come on in leaps and bounds over the last 10 years, riding styles have changed and modern bikes reflect this.

Retro bikes are great, a nice low down racey position, light, quick repsonsive, whilst the going is good.. riding them is fun..

But for Glentress.. Which I rode a few weeks ago, I would not even half consider riding it retro, apart form the fact that its a 6 hour drive so the thought of something failing on one of my older bikes is.. well unthinkable, my modern bike is a hoot to ride.. reliable and fast, with loads of braking power.

What I would definetly advise against is trying to make your retro ride more modern, It won't work, the geometry won't allow it. Your clockwork is cool, ride it when appropriate and enjoy the fun involved with riding your new bike!

Could not agree more

 

[gump]

Yep keep the old old, use the new for hard bashing

Problem I have is making my modern bikes feel modern - I end up inadvertedly tuning to the same position on all my bikes :roll: - even road.
Trying hard now to force a short stem and higher bars type of thing to see what its like.
Quick measure before this of seat to bb, seat to bars and bar drop is stupidly close on all my bikes - ie within mm :shock: just done by feel

 

[flyingwelshman]

Yep keep the old old, use the new for hard bashing

Problem I have is making my modern bikes feel modern - I end up inadvertedly tuning to the same position on all my bikes :roll: - even road.
Trying hard now to force a short stem and higher bars type of thing to see what its like.
Quick measure before this of seat to bb, seat to bars and bar drop is stupidly close on all my bikes - ie within mm :shock: just done by feel

I have the same problem!! How much trouble did I get 6 years ago getting a 120mm long flat stem for my MTB. Times have changed and much to my own disgust I have had to go to a short stem and riser bars. Still on a hard tail though

 

[clockworkgazz]

Thanks for the informed (as always) comments.

Went on a spin on the clockwork tonight and have to agree, for less demanding terrain, it is faster and has a more direct racing feel which is why I have always loved the bike .

The genesis takes so much more punishment (I have some tora forks on the front)and is still very nippy but is not such a thoroughbred. Even more reasons to have more than one bike I think.

Here are a few pics to show you the difference in frame size angles etc..

 

[cherrybomb]

I've tried new bikes with long forks, short stems and sit up and beg geometry and I just don't get on with them.
I guess it's what you're used to.
My favourite riding is old school XC; out in the open burning up bridle ways and cool stuff like that.
I guess as things progressed and suspension technology filtered down from DH bikes XC riding changed, There are sections on trails now that wouldn't have been out of place on DH courses ten years ago which is why all these 'all mountain' bikes are so popular (they look like DH bikes to me). When did XC bikes start to 'need' 4" of travel?
The two bikes I have built up at the moment are both rigid, and you know what? I actually like them like that and certainly haven't missed bouncy forks. :?

 

[Andy B]

xc bikes don't 'need' 4" of travel, but it does help my wrists from killing me after a few miles, also sus forks/bikes track the terrain a bit better than fully rigid bikes, meaning more control as your tyres are in contact with the ground more often than with a rigid bike.

I started out BITD on fully rigid bikes, until '03, when I got my 1st hardtail, which meant I could ride for longer without feeling fatigued and I could attack the techier trails with more speed.

Now I ride a 5" all mountain full susser which, due to my arthritis is a godsend, plus I can seriously cane it down my fave trails which makes me grin from ear to ear.

Each to their own though eh

 

[cherrybomb]

Don't miss understand. I like full sus bikes, I must get me an Orange Five at some point, I just wouldn't want to spend all day on one.
I know that sounds odd, but it's just the way things have panned out. The kind of riding I'd want to do all day doesn't justify having suspension and I gave up trying to get everywhere yesterday a long time ago. I've ended up back where I started when it comes down to that crucial question of: "If you could only have one bike........?"