Carlton Chrome Frame query

[otherself]

Didn't know Zeus supplied frame builders with fittings back then. Every day's a schoolday! However, the top tube cable stops for bare rear brake cable might help date it? When were they in vogue?

Just noticed the head badge is chromed as well. Did Carlton do this - or might it have gone in to the chroming tanks attached to the frame if it was rechromed (or just chromed)?

My 50's Flyer doesn't have top tube cable stops for rear brake.

Badge looks like its been chromed over. Good spot.

It has Italian-style lugs, so may help on which model it is. These became more common in the mid-late 60's afaik.

 

[Spokesmann]

F prefix places this at about 1959.

 

[winjohn]

Thanks for all the replies. There seems to be some debate around the age but I think I have solved the puzzle on that question.
I found this website.

Dating Carltons – Frame Numbers – Carlton Cycles

carltoncycles.uk

Which indeed gives the "F" prefix with four digits as used in 1957/8 BUT this was stamped on the rear drop out.

The website then gives this info:

1966 – 1973 High-End Lightweight Numbering System

A new number system was introduced in 1968 for the Mass Production of bicycles. From 1966 the existing system remained for the high-end frames such as Reynolds 531, with an alphabetical character placed at the beginning of the serial number, followed by four sequential serial numbers. The characters were marked on the underside of the bottom bracket or, in the case of some track frames, on the left (non-drive) side rear dropout. Often the numbers included the additional custom order number for bespoke frames.

1966: S	1970: E
1967: U/W/Y	1971: F
1968: B/C	1972: G
1969: D	1973: A/H

So it would seem that this is a 1971, high end lightweight frame. I assume that means Reynolds 531.

Any thoughts?

 

[non-fixie]

A rather knowledgeable member at another forum says that Zeus dropouts were used in Worksop during the ca. 1965-1970 period, so that would jibe with a 1970/1971 build date.

 

[otherself]

Thanks for all the replies. There seems to be some debate around the age but I think I have solved the puzzle on that question.
I found this website.

Dating Carltons – Frame Numbers – Carlton Cycles

carltoncycles.uk

Which indeed gives the "F" prefix with four digits as used in 1957/8 BUT this was stamped on the rear drop out.

The website then gives this info:

1966 – 1973 High-End Lightweight Numbering System

A new number system was introduced in 1968 for the Mass Production of bicycles. From 1966 the existing system remained for the high-end frames such as Reynolds 531, with an alphabetical character placed at the beginning of the serial number, followed by four sequential serial numbers. The characters were marked on the underside of the bottom bracket or, in the case of some track frames, on the left (non-drive) side rear dropout. Often the numbers included the additional custom order number for bespoke frames.

1966: S	1970: E
1967: U/W/Y	1971: F
1968: B/C	1972: G
1969: D	1973: A/H

So it would seem that this is a 1971, high end lightweight frame. I assume that means Reynolds 531.

Any thoughts?

Have you weighed just the frame? 2000g > 2075g would indicate 531.

A chromed Cobra model was made from Tru-wel which weighed a ton, well not a ton but a good 2550g or so.

 

[Spokesmann]

Thanks for all the replies. There seems to be some debate around the age but I think I have solved the puzzle on that question.
I found this website.

Dating Carltons – Frame Numbers – Carlton Cycles

carltoncycles.uk

Which indeed gives the "F" prefix with four digits as used in 1957/8 BUT this was stamped on the rear drop out.

The website then gives this info:

1966 – 1973 High-End Lightweight Numbering System

A new number system was introduced in 1968 for the Mass Production of bicycles. From 1966 the existing system remained for the high-end frames such as Reynolds 531, with an alphabetical character placed at the beginning of the serial number, followed by four sequential serial numbers. The characters were marked on the underside of the bottom bracket or, in the case of some track frames, on the left (non-drive) side rear dropout. Often the numbers included the additional custom order number for bespoke frames.

1966: S	1970: E
1967: U/W/Y	1971: F
1968: B/C	1972: G
1969: D	1973: A/H

So it would seem that this is a 1971, high end lightweight frame. I assume that means Reynolds 531.

Any thoughts?

High end stuff of the very late 60s/early 70s was mainly Flyers, Contre La Monte, Professional and Giro models. This frame looks earlier.

 

[otherself]

A rather knowledgeable member at another forum says that Zeus dropouts were used in Worksop during the ca. 1965-1970 period, so that would jibe with a 1970/1971 build date.

My 1950's flyer has Zeus dropouts . Unless they were later ad-on's i don't know.

 

[winjohn]

Have you weighed just the frame? 2000g > 2075g would indicate 531.

A chromed Cobra model was made from Tru-wel which weighed a ton, well not a ton but a good 2550g or so.

I will have to strip it to do that but it feels reasonable lightweight.

 

[winjohn]

High end stuff of the very late 60s/early 70s was mainly Flyers, Contre La Monte, Professional and Giro models. This frame looks earlier.

Aren't the lugs a bit plain for a 1950s Carlton? What about the frame makes you think it is earlier? It may not be the original fork I suppose.

 

[non-fixie]

My 1950's flyer has Zeus dropouts . Unless they were later ad-on's i don't know.

My bad. I wasn't clear. The actual statement, in a discussion about a 1967 Carlton, was "The manufacturer employed the Zeus Gran Sport dropout set on several different quality models in the ~1965-70 time."

So that doesn't exclude the use of Zeus ends in other periods and models.