Bonded titanium vs Welded Titanium?

[ibbz]

A question, how would a Bonded titanium frame compare to a Welded one?
I was looking and talking in terms of an Raleigh M Trax i've been looking at, I understand newer bikes were Welded Titanium?

Cheers

 

[pete_mcc]

M-trax and Dynatech bikes were great bikes at a price point. They were able to use titanium in some cases by using lower grade seamed titanium tubing than welded bikes and relied on painting or decals to cover up the less attractive welded ti. They ride well but are a little 'dead' in comparison to a welded bikes, possibly due to the thick lugs damping the tubes. They're also different to welded ti in that they use all manner of different metals - alloy lugs, ti front tubes, steel rear tubes etc so are impossible to compare directly.

As I said at the start, they are nice enough but not really the same kettle of fish as a welded bike.[/code]

 

[boxxer]

That's a fair reflection

I love my bonded MTrax, the ride is nice and compliant and it climbs and defends well.

I do have concerns at the strength of the 20year old epoxy that holds it together and would be more confident to whip it hard if it was welded...

When it eventually debonds, which it will I'm hoping I'm not on it...

 

[ibbz]

Food for thought.
Thanks for the responses and help.

my confidence has taken a dip, I was about to buy LozK's M Trax. I think I still will though, I doubt he's thrashed it or caned it.

 

[hamster]

I have sailed 20 year old epoxy boats. The stuff is amazingly durable.

 

[cce]

Titanium welding is a pretty complex process. Complex processes are pricy

Ergo, titanium welding would not have won out if it wasnt better.

 

[feetabix]

the m trax stuff is good.......worthy of a place in a collection......dont get cold feet if the price is right!.....the welded frames are uncompromised though and feel more pure to ride, alloy lugs will dumb down the 'feel' we all love just a little......i have a '91 trek 8700 with carbon tubes glued into alloy lugs, and a full alloy arse end......its still a great bike and i'm proud of it!....

 

[ibbz]

Arrgghh!!!

What do I do?

As I've just seen this;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Raleigh-Dyna- ... 23242355b2

How's this compare to the M-Trax 1995 Team Edition with series 2 Titanium bonded frame Lozk is selling??

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/gallery2/v/u ... 0.JPG.html

The Frame seems similar, but I'm no expert!

 

[highlandsflyer]

I have a couple of old WCFs with the carbon main frame tubes bonded into steel.

I wonder if they are really going to debond, rather than go on for ever like any old steel bike. I mean, there is no real reason the joins should be a weak point. Plywood is much stronger than just about any whole wood, the techniques of fabrication often end up with joins a strong as the material joined.

Like when you fracture your leg, the healed join is much stronger that the surrounding bone.

 

[Caramba Kid]

Arrgghh!!!

What do I do?

As I've just seen this;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Raleigh-Dyna- ... 23242355b2

How's this compare to the M-Trax 1995 Team Edition with series 2 Titanium bonded frame Lozk is selling??

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/gallery2/v/u ... 0.JPG.html

The Frame seems similar, but I'm no expert!

Dynatech MT4 is a higher spec frame as has Ti chainstays & Mn-Mo (Reynolds 531) seatstays, the M-Trax Team Edition is equivalent to a Dynatech MT3 with Mn-Mo chainstays & seatstays.