A thread about politics

[MikeD]

Like fish and chips it's fine on paper but it quickly turns messy when we get our hands on it.

I like this

 

[David B]

Like fish and chips it's fine on paper but it quickly turns messy when we get our hands on it.

Note to self: write said phrase down and retain for future use. Never heard that expression before but it's a good 'un.

David

 

[David B]

i definately blame the beverage called coca cola, as soon as a country gets it, it's all down hill :cry:

Hmm. Certainly worth thinking about - endless cups of tea and copious amounts of IPA [1] seemed to put the British Empire in good stead before things all started to fall to bits [2]....

David

[1] Proper IPA, not that weak & feeble Greene King stuff.
[2] Potential here to expand this ramble and make a few bob by selling it to Al Murray as script material for his next Pub Landlord tour. Please feel free to contirbute.

 

[Lysander]

.....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Mike Godwin! He's worse than Hitler.........:etc:

 

[Raging_Bulls]

I wrote down my views on the whole EU subject elsewhere a month or so ago, and stand by them.

The whole idea is good, but it's improperly executed.
The EU and Euro would have worked if there was a strong central government that controlled the entire union, with the current governments reduced to the status of regions/provinces rather than countries. If we had such a central government checking and adjusting the budgets of all members, none of this would have happened.
Now, due to the lack of control and local politics being so important, some countries made a mess of it because their politicians didn't want to make cuts which would cost them votes, and the entire euro zone is suffering as a result.

Now there's this proposal to increase the EU's control over the member countries' budgets, the markets and there's the intention to bring their national deficits down to 60% of the GDP.
While the reduction of the deficits means serious cuts for now, in the long term it would be a good thing and probably the only way to get out of this crisis without causing another one in a few years.
Less deficit means that you need less money for the interest on the debt, which means that either the taxes can be lowered to kick the economy back into a higher gear, or that the saved money can be used to decrease the deficit even more, thereby saving even more money.

The main problem with this, is that 95% of the people only think about the immediate influence on their wallet rather than the long-term effect on the economy. They don't want more taxes or a lower income right now, as that will mean they have less money to spend on their next house/car/bike/playstation. And politicians know this, which is why they only think as far ahead as the next elections, where they would lose votes if they actually take measures to do something about the grim outlook.
Once again, local politics and politicians' sense of self-preservation seem more important than the entire union, which is why the problems started in the first place.

So when Cameron mentioned that the proposal wasn't in the UK's best interests, he was only talking about the next few years. With this decision he not only jeopardizes the long-term future of the UK's economy, but that of the entire EU.

There are 2 ways out of this really. Either let the EU collapse (like Sylus suggested) and let all the countries solve it by themselves, or turn it into a real "United States of Europe".
Methinks the latter option is the least painful for anyone not living in Germany, and the first one will cause several countries to go bankrupt. (Italy, Greece, probably Spain)
Belgium won't go bankrupt, but will probably split up in this scenario. The grunt of the deficit will go to Flanders, but we can handle that. wallonia on the other hand would either join France or go bankrupt.

 

[Ernie]

Like most people i have followed this topic..this is an part of an email sent to me by a very good German friend..this was sent today..if you read it you see all is not as it seems in Germany.. my colleague is from Saxony..old East Germany...i also must point out that his English is better than my German..we worked together as Police Mentors in Kosovo for the U.N.

""Hi mate,at the weekend I've received your "Merry christmas" greatings. I'd like to returne it to you and your family. I hope you are still well, even if your prime minister separates your isle from resteurope. In my opinion it's the best he can do for old england. We germans are slaves of our stupide politicans desicions. That means in the future we have to worke until the age of 70, we have to pay the double tax and the value of our saved money will be allmost nothing. It's allways good to know, there is a keen friend outside of this fuckin €zone.""

Just food for thought

Ernie

 

[bm0p700f]

While I am sure the lastest EU deal to save the Euro is another EU special I still believe in the idea of the EU and what it is trying to achieve. I do think it expanded to far in 2004 and too many countries were admitted into the Euro.

Britain however simply does not believe in the project as such I think there should be a referendum on membership to decide this once and for all. I would on the stay in side but I think the best course of action for Britain that would be fairest for the EU as well is for Britain to leave. You cannot be part of a project in which you do not share the vision. For too long we have been in but no this and no to that like the EU is a pick 'n' mix.

Maybe once we leave the Euro sceptics will find out life is just as hard but maybe the illusion of "freedom" will help numb the pain it will bring.

In the long run all European countries including Britain are in economic deep trouble and there is no escaping it.

 

[We_are_Stevo]

Two things;

1: the Euro is not a unified currency, it may have the same name but it has wildly differing values in each member of the Community depending upon the state of their individual economies.

2: I can't stand David Cameron but I think he's just achieved something which will define him as a successful politician!

 

[Raging_Bulls]

2: I can't stand David Cameron but I think he's just achieved something which will define him as a successful politician!

Either that or it'll define him as the PM who toppled his own government.
Let's not forget that Cameron is in a coalition with the Liberal Democrats, who think the UK should be involved a lot more in the EU. Decisions like these can drive a wedge between the Lib Dems and the Conservatives. If that happens, you're looking at new elections.

 

[bm0p700f]

The euro does have different values in different part of the euro zone like the pound has a different value in central London to Dingle, Merseyside. Different income levels so the pound buys differing amounts.

I think Cameron did the only thing he could to keep his party happy. It's a shame it has been a triumph of who shouts the loudest politics.