6, 7, 8, 9. 10 and 11 speed woes

[2manyoranges]

OK...finally cracked it but only after considerable expense.

I know that 10 and 11 speed cassette spacing are different - chains not compatible. But some say '10 speed derailleurs do not know the difference between 10 and 11 speed and will work fine'...and there are some vids on Youtube which show it working fine. They are wrong.

Transition build - getting on fine, but Triton totally fails to send through the new Shimano Stans free hub. Waiting, waiting.... So I get a SRAM 11 speed GX cassette for the SRAM XD free hub - no 10 speed anywhere. Simple, I buy an 11 speed XT shifter and forget that the mech needs changing. But then I look to see if you can use a 10 speed mech. I set it all up and it changes OK.....ish. Rideable but nasty. Of course the new freehub arrives the next day (seven weeks late).

So I read and read and it seems to focus on an underlying reality that the pull ratio is different. Some fixes with washers but hell, the Big S engineers know by and large what they are doing, so press the button on a 70 gbp 11 speed mech and fit it this evening. Gorgeous shifting. Just breathe on the shifter and it goes up and down with the expected precision.

So...I think this is right but open to corrections....for Big S

6 speed mech will work with 6-9 speed cassettes.
6 speed shifter has hidden click and will work with 7 speed cassettes.
7 8 and 9 mechs all have same pull ratio and are essentially interchangeable.
7 8 and 9 speed mech will work with 6 speed free hub, just adjust the end stops. Same with 7 and 8. And shifters will work in same way...9 on 6 etc.
10 speed mech has a different pull ratio and will work with 10 speed only.
11 speed has yet another different pull ration and will work with 11 speed only.

And S and Sram cassettes are interchangeable.

Mainly sensible and clear....

 

[tpjm191]

see Sheldon Brown on same topic with more info for anyone interested

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/speeds.html

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-spacing.html

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/drivetrain-mixing.shtml

 

[legrandefromage]

You have forgotten road.

Modern 'thumbies' are now often bar-end shifters or down tube shifter re-purposed to fit handle bar mounts

10spd road shifters will work with anything from Shimano back as far as 1st generation indexed Dura-Ace from 1984 and MT-60 Deore/ M730 XT from around the 1987 model year.

However, given the thickness of the rear stays of modern frames, the older mechs dont always have enough reach to get to the largest cog.

 

[My_Teenage_Self]

Can't agree tbh.

it may be that your 10 speed mech didn't have the range for a large 11 speed cog?

Also, I'm not sure if Sram 10 11 and 12 speed have the same ratios? SHimano 10, 11 and 12 speed DO have the same ratio, which IS the same as Sram 12 speed. I'monly talking about mountain groupsets here.

I've run an 11 speed cassette on 10 and 12 speed. Perfect. with both a 10 speed shimano shifter and a 12 speed Sram shifter.


Was your 10 speed mech Sram...?

 

[2manyoranges]

MTS good thought, but no problem with range. Put in a longer B screw a la Hope, and adjusted H and L stops before putting cable in - full range coverage no problem. XT mech - 10 speed mech to 11 speed sram cassette, 11 speed XT shifter.

And you’ve touched on the Big Issue which everyone seems to disagree about - whether the 10 and 11 speed mechs have the same pull ratio. I found a number of sources which say that 10 pulls 3.4mm per stroke and 11 pulls 3.6. That does seem to correspond to the difficulties which I was having - get it perfect on the middle ring on the cassette, then it would be out by the time it got to each extreme, and changing was S L O W on the 3 very inner and 3 outer cogs. It was very obvious that the 11 speed mech was MUCH slicker.

 

[Frankenorange]

Re:

http://blog.artscyclery.com/science-beh ... atibility/

I found the tables in this article very helpful. Good for same make setups and mix 'n' match.

 

[2manyoranges]

Re:

Frakenorange - many thanks - indeed that I had not seen and it confirms the different pull ratios of 10 and 11 speed Shimano. Phew, glad I had dealt with a real problem and not the kind of will O the wisp which can seem to inhabit some drive trains. Nice post.

 

[Frankenorange]

Re:

2manyoranges - glad you found it useful

 

[LeeDevelopment]

Have you looked at Box Components yet??