Steel .... which one.. ?

I would have thought this would be a simple question for you guru's here,, but its buggin the hell outta me

I have very very limited funds currently and I'm uncertain on how best to spend it and not waste it, in order not to regret my decision

Now the dilemma is ... steel .. yes for sure.. but which one.. ?

I'm use to prestige as my current ride has this tubing used and think its fantastic and has seen me well for many years.. however this is on my touring/go every where frame..

but the frames I'm looking at currently, are not made from prestige,, and wondered how they will differ.. ?


my current choices are Fat chance steel... ? serrota Max OR ?, ritchey wcs ? and reynolds 853..

How will these materials differ to my prestige frameset, are they durable.. ? ,, and what should I look out for apart from the dreaded rust.. ?




Oh!! and to add... what would be a 'fair' , 'Guide' price for a frame made of the above materials.. ?

And of course as always.. thanks for the help ..

Retromtber":1029ytxk said:

I have very very limited funds currently

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Retromtber":1029ytxk said:

my current choices are Fat chance steel... ? serrota Max OR ?, ritchey wcs ? and reynolds 853..

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I think your version of 'very very limited funds' might differ to mine...


BB

They're all durable,, it al depends on what purpose the frame was made for, and who made it.
My favourites are Ritchey Logic, both early Prestige and later Dedacciai MCDV16.
Both can be built up into a VERY light frame.
Generally, steel frames since 2000 are built heavier (boo! :cry: )

There are easier questions to answer, like How to sort peace in the Middle East!

And indeed how tall and strong you are. There was an interesting article in Privateer. If you are tall and strong, then you need beefier tubing and all that finely butted 853 might be just a bit thin and whippy.

A Dutch pal of mine who is 6'9" has a bike with an extra frame tube like a tandem to stiffen the thing up, and the rest is in plain gauge tubing for the same reason.

wow...........and there lies the Question.

A frame is as much to do with geometry as it is about tubing....in my opinion.

and everyone is different, so there is no easy answer.

Two bikes for me spring instantly to mind, if we are talking the 1990s,

1. A bontrager Racelite.

A great well made frame that is endlessly enjoyable.

2. Chas Roberts D.O.G.S B.O.L.O.X

When others were turning to alternative materials, Roberts pushed the envelope, and took the best of steel, and got the most from each of the best tubes availiable. Reynolds 753, Columbus MAX, Columbus SL and 4130 all built into one fabrication.

just sum thoughts that came to mind...

"A frame is as much to do with geometry as it is about tubing....in my opinion. "

Indeed. Probably, in fact, ".....is MORE to do with geometry...."

oldave":2ccmdhq5 said:

"A frame is as much to do with geometry as it is about tubing....in my opinion. "

Indeed. Probably, in fact, ".....is MORE to do with geometry...."

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Exactly the point i was making, the OP never mentioned it.

Hence my continued comment, "everyone is different, therefore there is no easy answer"

Thanks for the comments , certainly more to think about then, than which I actually like the look of then..

I bought a specialized stumpjumper back in the early 90's and its been (and still is) a fantastic bike , the main reason I bought it was to explore and tour , and I cant have asked for a more reliable bike, Its got shimano xt throughout and its been faultless,, and well worth the near iirc £ 900 pounds I paid for it..

sadly though over the last 20 odd years its been sat in the basement and only just recently I've found enough time to try and get back into my riding again,, although however I don't have enough time now for touring like I use to, ... or indeed think it'd be fair to clear off for a month and leave the family.. , so I fancy a lighter , racy , type bike , something that I could possibly race, (or try too) in some sort of 'OAP Cat' ...

Now I realize that the spesh is not really suited to this and I dont really want to take the racks and fenders off to be honest... lol ..

I've had a look at some of the modern machinery on offer, and whilst they arguably ride better (disc brakes aside) they all look 'mass produced' and 'lifeless' fashion accessories..

I'd sooner put my money I've managed to scrape together towards something a little nicer , something with soul in

Size wise I'm only 5'10 so I wont need a gate..

the specialized I'm riding is a 19 and a half , so think I'd like something with a little more.. ahem... room for the charlies...

Weight wise I'm currently 15stone , but trying to loose 2 , so 13stone will be my hopeful race weight..

the specialized is around 30 odd pound , so I'd like to try and get something maybe in the 20-23lb bracket .. dont really want suspension , although maybe the option to upgrade would be nice...

Geometry .. well... erm... the specialized is nice but maybe a little long on the top , so I'll have to measure that I suppose..


One of my main concerns is the 'ride' , I want something that rides like the specialized as its direct and goes where you point it , but at the same time is 'springy' and seems to dampen the vibrations which I like..

I've ridden a friends alloy bike from time to time , and its just dead,, no feel to it,, and every time I've ridden it , the dentist seems to do well out of me.. lol...

I know the specialized is made of 'tange prestige' , so assume the ride is down to that tubing,, and I suppose now the 'geometry' ,,

Out of all the bikes I've been looking at,.... ,Roberts, yates,, bontys, ibis, rocky's, Dekerf to name a few,, I really like the 'look' of the 'yo eddy' , ritcheys , and serrota T-max's ... the last one being one that I fancied from bitd , love the flo colourway's and the tubing shapes..




So...... more thinking/research me thinks...






Thanks to everyone who have contributed thus far.. loving the site and unfortunately seem to be getting an addiction for shiny things.......

Retromtber":3c5txrfl said:

my current choices are Fat chance steel... ? serrota Max OR ?, ritchey wcs ? and reynolds 853.. How will these materials differ to my prestige frameset, are they durable.. ? ,, and what should I look out for apart from the dreaded rust.. ?

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Fat Chances were made of various grades of True Temper tubing. The Serotta Max OR was made of Columbus Max OR. Ritchey WCS was a variant of Tange Prestige with shorter butts. Reynolds 853 was a development of 753 with better characteristics for welding as opposed to brazing, and is always quoted as having 'air hardening' charcteristics, meaning it regains a greater fraction of its pre-welding level of strength after cooling, so you could manage with thinner butts. You never hear about it, but I believe that True Temper OX has similar characteristics. Reynolds 853 is quite widely regarded as the best tubeset for mtbs, and still retains that status 15 years on from its introduction.

There's a whole load of drivel talked about lightness, but frankly a piece of string is lighter than a steel tube, but it wouldn't make a very good bike frame. Maybe it started from heat treating, which does make a steel tube stronger - i.e., you can obtain the same strength from a thinner gauge (and thus lighter) tube. All the tubes you have mentioned are heat-treated, so for example a Tange Prestige (heat-treated) tube of 0.9-0.6-0.9 probably gives the same strength as a Tange MTB (not heat treated) tube of 1.0-0.7-1.0 gauge. The same strength from lighter weight, so this is an instance of lighter equals better.

But Tange Prestige Ultimate Superlight has a 0.8-0.5-0.8 top tube, which is obviously lighter than a Tange Prestige 0.9-0.6-0.9 top tube. But is it as strong? No. Is it as stiff? No. So is lighter better in this instance? Only if you want a frame that is less strong and less stiff.

And incidentally, it partly depends on you. If you weigh 10 stone, maybe Ultimate Superlight would be better for you. If you weigh 15 stone, maybe it would be worse.

Of the tubesets you mention, the other notable one is Columbus Max OR, which gained strength without added weight from being quite radically biovalised. I have a 1996 Kona Explosif made of this tubeset, and the top tube is a 0.7-0.4-0.7 tube and the down tube is a 0.8-0.5-0.8, and it is notably stiff although quite light. The downside was that it was fearfully expensive to produce, so no big manufacturer ever adopted it and it went out of production in the mid 90s.

Retromtber":3c5txrfl said:

Oh!! and to add... what would be a 'fair' , 'Guide' price for a frame made of the above materials.. ?

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You pay for the frame-maker's brand name, not the tubeset. Whether bling brand names offer value for money is a point of controversy. I would say not.