Who do you think you are kidding Mr Butler

[legrandefromage]

the red ebay frame appears to be the best match with just the cable stop and the pump pegs as a difference

1940’s Claud Butler lugless vintage lightweight road racing bike frame 57cm | eBay

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[Peachy!]

Ermmm thanks for those Mark. I think?

The frame certainly has a number of features that have been found on a number of Claud from immediately before, during and after the war up until the late 40’s. Which is not untypical of this mixed up period.
Looking through the number archives doesn’t actually give us the more exacting date one would normally expect because during this period things seem to got a bit messy admin wise at CB what with some of there production certainly of lightweights being made up in Lancashire with the London workshops predominantly making utility/service bikes.
The number sort of fits a set we have that seem to straddle 1945/6 with a continuation of the the actual frame numbers which could explain the high frame count for Feb 1946.
But this is only one theory explaining the number anomalies.
Another is an assumption that there was a separate count for the government orders, but I doubt this bike is one of those.
Last and yes possibly clutching a straws here, there is the very long shot it’s from December 1936.
Why? Well we do have a number of numbers in the mid to late 30’s that not only didn’t bother with the “3” digit for the thirties but also the “1” digit for the months October, November & December so 624722 just might represent 1936 (6) December (2) frame count 4722.
I’ve asked the seller for the date stamp on the Sturmey hub casing and if there are any markings on the crankset.

 

[jim haseltine]

Didn't CB drop the Continental dropouts at the end of the 1940s? Thats mean that the frame couldn't (or shouldn't) be later than then.
I still go back to the way it takes 27" wheels so well, I may be wrong but I didn't think such things became common until after the war.

Whatever, it's a good looking frame and one I'd be happy to play around with if I could hide it from SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED.

 

[Peachy!]

Didn't CB drop the Continental dropouts at the end of the 1940s? Thats mean that the frame couldn't (or shouldn't) be later than then.
I still go back to the way it takes 27" wheels so well, I may be wrong but I didn't think such things became common until after the war.

Whatever, it's a good looking frame and one I'd be happy to play around with if I could hide it from SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED.

Conti drops, yes last seen in the range in 1949
27” wheels, yes post war they were more dominant but you can find plenty on offer in the mid 30’s in the Claud ranges, plus also a tall person could easily specify 27” for a bespoke build.

 

[greencat]

I often think it's good to apply occum's razor. Why would someone take a only just post-war bike and paint in ARP colours - and then have a story about how they used it in the war? Especially as the paint job clearly isn't a recent or particularly great one. Stolen valour? No-one's going to be impressed with someone's tales of being in the Dad's Army. And communities were smaller too - they'd know if you were telling porkies (there was a guy local to us who claimed to fly mosquitos during the war, and everyone locally regarded him as a fantasist). Nor is the seller trying to make serious bank from it.

Personally, I think the 1936 custom bike theory fits well. You've then got a guy who "converts" it to ARP usage by giving it a lick of paint as there isn't a ARP bike that fits him. It fits the story too.

 

[Peachy!]

But then Claud didn’t start fillet brazing until 1937 so it’s looking less likely that it’s a war hero.

 

[legrandefromage]

Ok, I wont bother anymore then, consider my toys thrown far out of the pram

my Billaminates and a few other 1940's and 50's bikes that have passed through LGF towers clearly giving me no interest, experience or expertise and certainly passion flies out of the window if you going to be like that

<looks at 1940's Raleigh in the shed, slams door> No not at all.

 

[Peachy!]

Ok, I wont bother anymore then, consider my toys thrown far out of the pram

my Billaminates and a few other 1940's and 50's bikes that have passed through LGF towers clearly giving me no interest, experience or expertise and certainly passion flies out of the window if you going to be like that

<looks at 1940's Raleigh in the shed, slams door> No not at all.

Now you’re being silly again

 

[MartinB123]

I wouldn't worry about the back story if it's getting that difficult - enjoy it for what it is!

 

[dwscrimshaw]

This is the numbers I have listed for 1936/46. As you can see the 1946 numbers are significantly higher than 36 and in Feb were already at 2000+ which makes me think they carried over from 1945 which was at ~1600 in Oct that year. The end of the war could explain the inconsistency, but that a lot of frames to be built during a war! 1940 was an odd year with the months often missing, but 36/46 looks consistent in style.

Having looked at the frame the 30's frames look ok with all the pre-war features you might expect, the 40's group too look ok and do not have these features. Not sure how this helps here, but I do think there is a genuine difference in the number range for these two years.