Seized hub
- Thread starter MerckxFan
- Start date
Robbied196
Senior Retro Guru
mattr":3pfmc6lr said:
Whats a freewheel?
Re:
I mentioned that I had to get the wheel to the bike shop, which is about 1.5 hours west of my community. A friend picked it up yesterday and I hope to have it back in my possession tonight. I am going to the hardware store to see if I can get some industrial strength penetrating fluid then I am going to do the jam jar thing to make sure I am rotating the correct way. I am starting to think that when I had it in the vise I was turning the wrong way and just tightening it. Counter clockwise is the same as anti clockwise of course. In Canada we hear counter more frequently than anti. Ya the bike shop should have known what to do but then again maybe not. As before, it's nice to have someone to share my challenges with. I am really hoping I can resolve this situation without breaking anything, then I can take some pictures to post on line.
I mentioned that I had to get the wheel to the bike shop, which is about 1.5 hours west of my community. A friend picked it up yesterday and I hope to have it back in my possession tonight. I am going to the hardware store to see if I can get some industrial strength penetrating fluid then I am going to do the jam jar thing to make sure I am rotating the correct way. I am starting to think that when I had it in the vise I was turning the wrong way and just tightening it. Counter clockwise is the same as anti clockwise of course. In Canada we hear counter more frequently than anti. Ya the bike shop should have known what to do but then again maybe not. As before, it's nice to have someone to share my challenges with. I am really hoping I can resolve this situation without breaking anything, then I can take some pictures to post on line.
Re:
Here is a continuation. I do not know what happened to the first part of my post.
My father in law says that using a hammer and punch is the same as using an impact wrench and if that doesn't free it, it is too badly seized to be salvaged. That was his conclusion this morning after banging away at it. He did not want to keep banging because eventually that would damage the hub itself. He has removed the race that keeps the bearings in place. He plans to remove the sprockets by grinding off the outer sprockets at which point the inner sprockets should fall off. When he gets to the part inside, that is threaded, he will separate it using his dremel, that high speed whirling thing. So my Campagnolo close ratio freewheel is toast. The bright side of this is that as my legs get older it was getting progressively more difficult to climb those hills without a hill climbing gear. Assuming I will end up with a serviceable sprocketless hub I will choose and order one on line and hopefully it will thread onto my hub and my derailleur will be able to accommodate it.
The second thing I learned was how to determine the clockwise/counterclockwise thing. The suggestion to use a threaded jam jar was so simple it was brilliant. I learned that the correct way to remove the sprocket when it is upside down in the vise is to turn the wheel counter clockwise. I will never know if my attempt to remove it by turning clockwise caused the parts to seize or if they were already seized.
A footnote. Yesterday I was involved in a charity bike ride. I had planned to ride the 65 Km route with all the other road bikers on my classic Eddy Merckx machine. Since that was not possible and because my son was doing the ride on his only bicycle, a mountain bike, I did the route on my mountain bike, also sort of a classic since I have had it since 1989. Well my son and I were able to keep up with the road bikers to the midway point. We were really pushing ourselves but it felt great to keep up. Next year we will do it on road bikes and really shine.
Here is a continuation. I do not know what happened to the first part of my post.
My father in law says that using a hammer and punch is the same as using an impact wrench and if that doesn't free it, it is too badly seized to be salvaged. That was his conclusion this morning after banging away at it. He did not want to keep banging because eventually that would damage the hub itself. He has removed the race that keeps the bearings in place. He plans to remove the sprockets by grinding off the outer sprockets at which point the inner sprockets should fall off. When he gets to the part inside, that is threaded, he will separate it using his dremel, that high speed whirling thing. So my Campagnolo close ratio freewheel is toast. The bright side of this is that as my legs get older it was getting progressively more difficult to climb those hills without a hill climbing gear. Assuming I will end up with a serviceable sprocketless hub I will choose and order one on line and hopefully it will thread onto my hub and my derailleur will be able to accommodate it.
The second thing I learned was how to determine the clockwise/counterclockwise thing. The suggestion to use a threaded jam jar was so simple it was brilliant. I learned that the correct way to remove the sprocket when it is upside down in the vise is to turn the wheel counter clockwise. I will never know if my attempt to remove it by turning clockwise caused the parts to seize or if they were already seized.
A footnote. Yesterday I was involved in a charity bike ride. I had planned to ride the 65 Km route with all the other road bikers on my classic Eddy Merckx machine. Since that was not possible and because my son was doing the ride on his only bicycle, a mountain bike, I did the route on my mountain bike, also sort of a classic since I have had it since 1989. Well my son and I were able to keep up with the road bikers to the midway point. We were really pushing ourselves but it felt great to keep up. Next year we will do it on road bikes and really shine.
Something happened to the first part of my rant. I see only the part that says it is a continuation. Maybe it will surface at some point. I was saying that this adventure taught me two things. The first was that I should have been removing and lubricating the sprocket assembly periodically over the years. The second was the jam jar suggestion. Also, my father in law, who used to work as a machinist took an interest in my problem and offered his assistance. The problem is just two threaded parts that are seized up, no big deal. He attacked the free wheel assembly with a hammer and punch to see if he could free it up that way. No luck. I trust the whole story makes sense now, even if a but disjointed.
These things can become hideously stuck on. Occasionally a really long bar on the spanner is needed (at least a metre), hence why fitting the tool to a vice and turning the wheel usually works as you get the leverage from both hands on the rim.
To think of the right way, pedalling the bike tightens the freewheel. So you need it to turn the freewheeling way.
To think of the right way, pedalling the bike tightens the freewheel. So you need it to turn the freewheeling way.
I have a recent bicycle repair book, published by Park Tools from the United States. It told me that the repair tool had to be turned counter clockwise. It then referred to the extra leverage that would be achieved by putting the repair tool in a vise. It said that the rim would then be turned counter clockwise. I thought that because it was the rim being turned, not the tool, that it would be turned clockwise. The jam jar test proved that with the vise method the correct rotation of the rim to loosen the threads is counter clockwise. Hopefully within the next few weeks I can end this story on a happy note, with a new, wider ratio freewheel in place but the hub and rim the same.
Pionir
Retro Guru
What about the bowl of ice trick?
There's a video somewhere showing it but I can't find it. Basically if you have the hub on its own (not built into a wheel), you put in some sacrificial spokes, fill a bowl of water and add some newspaper. Put the hub and spokes into the bowl and put the lot in a freezer overnight.
The next day you put the removal tool in the vice as you're doing now, but turn the bowl of ice which is now gripping the spokes (and hub) nicely. Obviously a square bowl will probably work better than a round one otherwise you might end up turning the bowl around the ice.
Once the freewheel is off, just let everything thaw.
There's a video somewhere showing it but I can't find it. Basically if you have the hub on its own (not built into a wheel), you put in some sacrificial spokes, fill a bowl of water and add some newspaper. Put the hub and spokes into the bowl and put the lot in a freezer overnight.
The next day you put the removal tool in the vice as you're doing now, but turn the bowl of ice which is now gripping the spokes (and hub) nicely. Obviously a square bowl will probably work better than a round one otherwise you might end up turning the bowl around the ice.
Once the freewheel is off, just let everything thaw.
Here is an update. My father in law, retired machinist, removed the outer sprockets of the gear cluster by grinding them off. The inner sprockets then pretty much fell off. The race in side, the one with all of the little ball bearings came off but I was not there to see it. At that point all that was left on the threaded hub was one hard piece of metal. In order to get a grip on it, Harry, my father in law, squared off two sides so he could very firmly grip what was left of my freewheel and after quite a bit of grunting in a counterclockwise direction, the destroyed piece began to move on the thread. I missed watching that action. So my 1986 Campagnolo freewheel was sacrificed so I could save the hub, spokes and rim. I have now replaced my broken spoke and I have been shopping for a new freewheel and chain. I can appreciate that the free hub design is the standard and the freewheel is much less popular. I can easily order a 7 speed Shimano hyperglide or a 7 speed SunRace freewheel. I have dealt with the supplier of the SunRace before so I will probably go with that and see how it performs. As I browsed the web site for Mountain Equipment Co op I found 3 potential freewheels but about 20 Cassette style sprocket sets and a better range of prices. Oddly the site does not have bearings. When I got my wheel back from Harry the saved bearings were in a small glass jar. I counted 17 so I think that between 1 and 3 must have rolled away and been eaten by their cat in the process. Within two weeks I should have it all back together then will post a picture. Thank you to everyone who offered a suggestion. If I had known all of that before I attempted to fix it myself I would probably still be using my old freewheel.
