Is Retro faster?

[M-Power]

Re:

Drop the mic post from LGF there Suspended weight analysis, spot on. Lets not forget the big increase in serious injuries modern mountain-bikers are prone to. One of the mums at the school, a senior nurse at the local hosi, told me how they regularly get people in from Chicksands trail centre with serious injuries and even paralysis !!! I have also seen the pics, often a badge of honour, on various FB groups.

Boyz will be boyz, i get that. Of course we got injured bitd but it was a rare occurance, the occasional broken collarbone, wrist and sometimes dirty scrapes needing a tet jab. I wonder how many of the modern riders will end up with debilitating brain injuries in 15-20yrs time from all the repeated landings from sending-it. Heck its a lot of fun and prolly no different from the risks of driving too fast.


Just my middle aged 2c

 

[yakboy]

You can 'trounce' 73 year olds? I don't know if that's a bragging point.

Was submitted by mistake before proof reading...Should read "25 years younger than myself" Although my Dad who is 74 does a spinning class 3 times a week and would give me a run for my money !!

 

[brocklanders023]

Some people are happy in their 'bunker', away from the serious BS that seems to affect cycling. MTB is such a fractured and now quite small niche, theres not the guaranteed returns in bringing out product X every 6 months. Buyers are no longer falling for it.

Unfortunately the internet is killing off the history with short lived facebook groups wiping away what was what 20 years ago with only a few groups like this huddling together keeping what actually happened 'alive'

The MTB came into being to traverse natural landscapes and trails. The first 5 years of MTB was to negotiate all day trails that you couldnt reach on your road bike. The 'modern' bike is a result of an arms race between manufacturers and trail centres, each getting more extreme. Trail centres are basically theme parks, contrived thrills. A 'retro bike' simply was never designed for the man made trails, the stutter bumps from 29'er even giving 27.5 users headaches.

I'm quoting here, SRAM are lazy, they didnt want anything to do with Shimano's front mech patents and some clever marketing later we have 1 x 12 systems which people now swear by. Despite the physics, gearing is now back to front with weight savings not on the 'unsuspended weight'.

Uphill riding is almost impossible on a soggy suspended slack angled heavy modern MTB, the physics of the bike simply doesnt allow it, its designed for speed going downhill.

Older suspension designs mimicked rigid bikes of the day to eliminate pedal bob and such like. Now the bigger bars, slacker steering with the longer trail 'forward geometry' are there to smooth out as much as possible, enabling the rider to point and shoot which feeds back into the use of trail centres, man made thrills to generate commercial income.

A modern bike is no longer designed for a 20 year life span, its an arms race, manufactures have absolutely no interest in longevity.

Trail centres are the golf courses of the cycling world, sanitized and safe organized thrills where the score at the end of the day is what counts.

'natural' trails are boring, a retro bike is boring but it is the most capable of way getting you from A to B via that lovely scenery over, just near that forest on the other side of that big hill.

Just my random cobbled together guff as usual but theres a lot more to be said.

''Horses and kit kats''

Pretty much agree with that mate, especially on the 1x nonsense. I have it and it's no better and quite possibly worse.

Don't agree with the climbing stuff though as I find it no more difficult on my slack 29" full suss or 650b ht then I have on any other bike. Geometry has moved on from the days of slack bikes being mince at anything other than downhill. Whether you like the current geometry is a personal choice but a well sorted slack, low and long bike will be fine on most trails.

As for trail centres..... The good ones are not particularly sanitised or safe. Cheap thrills yes, easily accessible, yes, but they can be as much fun as anywhere else. Variety is the spice of life and anyone who doesn't at least try all terrains is potentially missing out.

As for which is faster, (As a general rule, covering all applications) the answer is still modern. :facepalm:

 

[al-onestare]

Just a few thoughts. You raise some very valid points.

Some people are happy in their 'bunker', away from the serious BS that seems to affect cycling. MTB is such a fractured and now quite small niche, theres not the guaranteed returns in bringing out product X every 6 months. Buyers are no longer falling for it.

I agree with the sentiment. Do you happen to have any evidence on the last point? From what I've read it's fairly flat in growth.

Unfortunately the internet is killing off the history with short lived facebook groups wiping away what was what 20 years ago with only a few groups like this huddling together keeping what actually happened 'alive'

I disagree. There are too many similar groups - you know the ones - but some of these have been around a while now and, like this portal, have a core group of active users; sharing information and experiences. One big difference to this portal is the global depth of reach and the connection between ex-riders, industry and media folks, with us, the punter. From personal experience that's been super-cool and really useful.

I'm quoting here, SRAM are lazy, they didnt want anything to do with Shimano's front mech patents and some clever marketing later we have 1 x 12 systems which people now swear by. Despite the physics, gearing is now back to front with weight savings not on the 'unsuspended weight'.

The piece that really makes me smile is how road and gravel bikes have taken MTB ratios and logic, then tweaked it, and made road biking super accessible. Where-as mountain bikes have taken the opposite direction and made it less accessible.

Trail centres are the golf courses of the cycling world, sanitized and safe organized thrills where the score at the end of the day is what counts.

I disagree. Bike Park Wales, Coed y Brenin, Windrock in the US and many, many, many, many more: these are super-testing, super-technical, and potentially highly dangerous - pretty cool! Having everything under one virtual roof could look santised so mixing up the riding experience helps accentuates the feel good experiences these places can bring.

Some of you lot really need to come out of the bunker and have a decent go on a few modern bikes as your assessments are way off from what I have experienced.

I'd be interested to know what your experiences have been

 

[legrandefromage]

I'm pleased that my post is being discussed rather just Brexit style 'you're wrong' or 'you're conceited'.

You just cannot compare the two anymore, the genome tree has branched off in so many directions.

These days, I'd rather be out on my road bike which allows for retro and modern all at the same time.

I have just 3 old MTB's left. A zaskar because I've owned it from new and wont have a word said against it, its covered some 40,000 miles in its life whether its been an arse up in the air XC racer or drop barred commuter or bad ass gnarly jump bike, with me on it it was always faster!

The tired old road tubing British Eagle plods up and down dale or White Peak without complaint, it isnt faster than modern, its reliable and easy to clean - especially after being covered in what I hope was milky white Stan's Fluid from a nearby tubeless tyre puncture and not milky white Stan's fluid...

The other mtb is yellow.

 

[The History Man]

And they were all, yellow.

 

[shinobi]

And they were all, yellow.

Is that , mellow yellow ?

 

[yakboy]

You just cannot compare the two anymore, the genome tree has branched off in so many directions.

This sums it up for me. I love riding both modern and retro but they are very different and that's part of the joy. You could split retro into rigid vs front suspension vs full suspension vs canti's vs V brakes. They all ride differently have different strengths and weakness's

Vive La Difference

 

[legrandefromage]

The funniest bit about new wheels being wider and bettererer and all that is that its the same 135mm based hub but the manufacturer has added spacers to create a 140mm boost (or whatever it is this week), the wheel stays the same with same strengths and weaknesses of old but now with added Quinnin10 for your comfort.

You know what I mean...

 

[al-onestare]

You just cannot compare the two anymore, the genome tree has branched off in so many directions.

This sums it up for me. I love riding both modern and retro but they are very different and that's part of the joy. You could split retro into rigid vs front suspension vs full suspension vs canti's vs V brakes. They all ride differently have different strengths and weakness's

Vive La Difference

Agreed