Do modern groupsets last less?

[rochester21]

This is a topic I'm interested in. Has reliability gone down with Shimano groupsets in the last decade?

I have been hearing bad things about the latest 10/11/12 speed gruppos, things like glued crankset arms, chains and cassettes that wear faster than ever before etc.

I know at least some of this is true, because not only the price for 11/12 speed chains and cassettes are very high, I have 3x7 and 3x8 STX and XT groupsets that look and work like new, parts are cheap and they wear out slow when maintained.

But the new stuff? I'm skeptical. Shimano seems to be giving durability for lightness, not to mention custom hub/spoke designs and proprietary mounts for their shifters that change every generation.

Bottom line, I think Shimano quality has started to go downhill while prices have gone up.

In these circumstance, I am more tempted by their lower end gruppos because I hate 1X setups, I don't want to pay for 12 speed cassettes that are huge, ugly and expensive while also lasting less than the older stuff and I tend to believe with the cheaper parts, quality isn't sacrificed for saving a few grams off each part.

Is low end the new high end or should I keep riding my vintage bikes? Because i'm pretty sure the old iron horses with their now vintage groupsets can last me until I retire(maybe not used daily, but).

Wish I could still buy brand new 3x8/2x8 XT and Ultegra stuff, that's all I'm saying.

Anybody else feel the same or I am growing old too soon?

 

[Mickeyspinn]

I'd say the problem really lies with the amount of gears squeezed into a tight space needing ever thinner chains and sprockets.
I do appreciate a nice shift,thanks Mr Shimano for giving us hyperglide but it's getting daft....It doesn't matter what materials or funky surface coatings used there is a fact that cannot be changed....

Chains are only happy when running dead straight .....this a fact.

add a "weakest link" ie quicklinks...couple that with a mountain to climb of a rear cluster and it all goes wrong real quick.
Seriously how many gears do you actually use it's usually about 3 or 4 at most ! The rest are just there to get you to the one you want!

 

[FluffyChicken]

re: crankset arms.
This was a new technique Shimano used, quite sophisticated really. They had some failures (as usual it's probably very few in % terms to actual still fine)
They've altered the newest revision to make it stronger, they also gained weight.

Stick to Deore or SLX and everything seems nice.
XTR/Dura-Ace is always going to be cutting-edge race stuff, with a slight trickle to Ultegra/XT.
It has it's place and racing it doesn't need to last so long.

You should see the number of SRAM rear mech that just seem to fold up at any sign of a blade of grass. Or at least from the pictures I see ;-)

 

[Mickeyspinn]

re: crankset arms.
This was a new technique Shimano used, quite sophisticated really. They had some failures (as usual it's probably very few in % terms to actual still fine)
They've altered the newest revision to make it stronger, they also gained weight.

Stick to Deore or SLX and everything seems nice.
XTR/Dura-Ace is always going to be cutting-edge race stuff, with a slight trickle to Ultegra/XT.
It has it's place and racing it doesn't need to last so long.

You should see the number of SRAM rear mech that just seem to fold up at any sign of a blade of grass. Or at least from the pictures I see ;-)

What do you think causes the mechs to fold?

 

[Matttymm]

I’m no expert here but the guys at my local shop always talk about new stuff not being built to last as the manufactures just see it as a massive revenue earner.

 

[averagebiker]

Is it anything to do with obsessive marketing depts/willy waving riders wanting to boast about having extra gears as shaving grams?
Lighter and more complex usually equates to less longevity and more fragility in most things. Can bikes be any different!
Do people really need £5k bikes? I don't

 

[Mickeyspinn]

I’m no expert here but the guys at my local shop always talk about new stuff not being built to last as the manufactures just see it as a massive revenue earner.

Yeah I think there's a bit of that going on but I pin most of the blame on thin chains, thin sprockets and cogs.couple that with general lack of chain hygiene you get super fast wear and baggy chains. I dont run any 10 speed or 11,12 but with my 7,8 and 9 speeds I have faffed about a bit doing my own research you could say!
ive broken down sections of chains Into separate parts ...pins,inner plates,outer plates and rollers and compared them to the new offcuts from fitting it , using an magnifying glass you can see wear everywhere.
Modern chains are made so differently than the old non indexed/hg type. it makes me laugh when people still use chain checking tools they are a gauge not a measuring tool! Often forgotten is cyclical repetition of gear shifts....some gear ratios make this a whole lot worse...one section of a chain ends up doing most of the gear shifting! If you don't put the gauge over that part you really have no clue how knacked your chain is! I say measure end to end centre of pin to centre of pin.
the rest of modern drivetrain stuff ain't so bad....well don't get me started on push fit bearings..

 

[Mickeyspinn]

Is it anything to do with obsessive marketing depts/willy waving riders wanting to boast about having extra gears as shaving grams?
Lighter and more complex usually equates to less longevity and more fragility in most things. Can bikes be any different!
Do people really need £5k bikes? I don't

I'd love it if someone built a carbon frame to accept a proper lightweight groupset from the fifties.i reckon overall bike weight could be lighter! Ooh aluminium cottered cranks on hollow axles yum! Wasnt uncommon for derailleurs to way sub 150g,how much does a di2 derailleur weigh? 205g! So youve saved some cable but added a battery....duh that'll be 5 large sir ....see you soon!

 

[rochester21]

Yeah I think there's a bit of that going on but I pin most of the blame on thin chains, thin sprockets and cogs.couple that with general lack of chain hygiene you get super fast wear and baggy chains. I dont run any 10 speed or 11,12 but with my 7,8 and 9 speeds I have faffed about a bit doing my own research you could say!
ive broken down sections of chains Into separate parts ...pins,inner plates,outer plates and rollers and compared them to the new offcuts from fitting it , using an magnifying glass you can see wear everywhere.
Modern chains are made so differently than the old non indexed/hg type. it makes me laugh when people still use chain checking tools they are a gauge not a measuring tool! Often forgotten is cyclical repetition of gear shifts....some gear ratios make this a whole lot worse...one section of a chain ends up doing most of the gear shifting! If you don't put the gauge over that part you really have no clue how knacked your chain is! I say measure end to end centre of pin to centre of pin.
the rest of modern drivetrain stuff ain't so bad....well don't get me started on push fit bearings..

I would definitely like to hear more about the differences between old and new chains, i always thought the design remained the same since they first put a chain on a bike?

Also, i had no idea that a chain can have uneven wear on it.
I'm a chain noob, but i'm very interested in the topic, tell us more!

 

[FluffyChicken]

Chain wear
Go mad and many links to follow.
Edit as this may be a better start

Finding the best bicycle chain: What over 3,000 hours of testing revealed - CyclingTips

Want to know which 11- and 12-speed chains offer the best durability and performance? With exclusive test data from Zero Friction Cycling and CeramicSpeed, we dive deep to find out.

cyclingtips.com

Also show show for road use anyway, modern chains are much better than current 8 and 9 speed chains from shimano. And the new 12speed are something else, though that is new tech and new standards for a chain I think.

How to check for chain wear: The easy way, the best way, and why - CyclingTips

Your bicycle’s chain is put through hell every time you ride. For every minute of pedaling, approximately 44,000 chain pieces are in motion, creating 320,000 separate instances of sliding surface friction. And all of this is on a component that sits near to the ground and is exposed to the...

cyclingtips.com

It is road based reading so not open to the abuse offroad chains get, at least here in the UK in the mud, grit, sand,....