Dawes Imperial - any info?

Re:

Sorry, the catalogue is at the link I gave, which I discovered after asking about a scan.

I've now checked and the headset I have is marked Kranz Hatta Japan. Not a brand I know, but it's lasted well and was easily in good enough condition to put back. Staggeringly, at the time of writing, there's an identical headset on eBay for £75 (no takers though!)

Dawes%20headset.jpg
 
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Just on the off chance, I'm interested in frame numbering. I know that there are no proper records, and that formats varied, for Dawes. However, mine seems to be AP2 090. May imply that it is in fact a 1990 frame (i.e. the year I bought it) of course. Anyone got any information, or other numbers, especially for Imperials, to compare?
 
I know nothing about their numbering but my serials are:
AD7592
PB1093

Sadly, this does NOT confirm your theory as the 92 frame is the later one (with the script "Imperial" rather than the font matching the "Dawes" logotype).
Looks like we have the beginnings of a Surviving Imperial Register here. Only a few thousand missing numbers. Remind me of your frame size again and I can start a table. Get enough of them and maybe we can work out the numbering approach.

*******************************************************
* Imperial Owners! Turn your bikes over! Post your frame number! *
*******************************************************

Ha.
 
Mine's a 21" and, for the reasons above, manufactured not later than the first two months of 1990, quite possibly earlier.
 
I seem to have just bought a rather rare 1982 Dawes Imperial in “pearl red” (which I’ve only seen listed for that year) It also has Shimano Golden Arrow groupset, but I’m assuming that’s not original.
 

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Really interesting Stefan. Not sure I've seen one of this colour scheme pictured before. That's a bit of a Shimano crime scene there (it would have been Suntour Cyclone II + SR originally and I'm not sure the steel(?) headset is original.) Seat pin looks factory and if they are Weinmann 605s then the brakes are original too.
What are your plans? I may have a few bits a bobs if you are thinking of going back to factory spec.
 
Really interesting Stefan. Not sure I've seen one of this colour scheme pictured before. That's a bit of a Shimano crime scene there (it would have been Suntour Cyclone II + SR originally and I'm not sure the steel(?) headset is original.) Seat pin looks factory and if they are Weinmann 605s then the brakes are original too.
What are your plans? I may have a few bits a bobs if you are thinking of going back to factory spec.
Thanks - I probably should replace the headset - looks kinda off. I realize the Shimano on it must have either been swapped (or potentially custom-built or ordered? ... not sure if that was a possibility), but I don't mind it - I'd never actually seen Golden Arrow groupset before, looks kinda cool. And since I'm planning to "resto-mod" it, I won't bee keeping it very original anyway (I didn't get the wheels with it, for instance, because I had it shipped from England to the US, so was trying to keep cost/weight down as much as possible). Do you happen to know what wheels would have been original, just out of curiousity? ... I love these 531 frames - I just finished doing a vintage/modern cx/gravel build using a 1980 or 1981 Dawes Galaxy, and it rides better than most modern CX bikes I've tried! Here's a picture - I know it must be blasphemy for those who like to see them all original, but I really enjoy the modern touches - just makes it a lot more convenient / easy to ride, and I find myself wanting to grab the bike more often as a result. The color on this imperial is really eye-catching :) ... very nice sparkle to the metallic "pearl red" (it's more of a dark rose/pink to be honest, but I dig it!) Capture.PNG
 
Hi Stefan. I'm afraid there was very little in the way of custom ordering available from Dawes at this point in their history - although having said that they did include a couple of bare framesets in their catalogue (might even have been 1982). I used to work in a bike shop that ran the Dawes range at around this time and was lucky enough to get my 1st Imperial as a warranty replacement (with a bit of leaning on the sales rep by my boss I think) after I cracked a rear dropout on a lesser Dawes I'd bough 2nd hand. They also later did me a custom colour on a Ranger frameset but this was not a regular occurrence. Somewhere I posted the summary I did of the specifications of all Imperials from 1982 to 1986 but I can't remember where, so have uploaded a pdf of it for you. This pearl red was the same as the ladies "Fleur" model of that year. I see that I don't have any evidence of what headset was fitted to the 1982 model - though later ones were alloy.

Restomod, eh? Nothing wrong with that. I have 2 imperials, one as original as I can make it and the other "as I would have improved it" in the 1980s. I can't argue that modern indexed gears and brakes aren't better so go for it! It's sometimes a bit of a challenge to find modern bits that still "look right" to my eye but there's no reason to be stuck in the past. The key is understated subtlety; Even in their sunburst paint job years, Dawes were never flash.
I don't think it needs it but if you are contemplating a paint job, Lloyds do all the decals.
The original SR handlebar stems come up often on ebay and polish up very nicely if you can be bothered.
The CT-5LA chainset had an unhelpful 144 BCD, which I think limits you to a 41T inner ring so a good candidate for upgrade.
If you decide to migrate the Shimano stuff to the Galaxy (cheeky suggestion), the Cyclone II gear mechs are worth seeking out and were superbe (Not "Superbe" which was a more upmarket Suntour groupset and would look fantastic on this if you can find one. A few NOS sets pop up from time to time). NOS Cyclone II seem to pop up quite a bit your side of the pond.
If you stick with the Weinmann brakes, they were excellent in their day and very easy to service, but will never have the power of a disc brake setup.

Original saddles are hen's teeth and not worth the money (imagine plastic razor blade) and the same is true of the Benotto-style handlebar tape.
You're not missing anything special by not having the wheels. The Atom hubs are fine but nothing much above ordinary although the Weinmann 571s rims were better than on later models. Spokes were never stainless but 1986 models had chrome double butted ones (which rust if not maintained). For a restomod, you might want to look at sticking on some Rigida DP18s?

I think you'll find the Imperial a pleasant surprise as compared with your Galaxy. It's 531 throughout and has a marginally more upright geometry (you should find a "73" stamp at the top of the seat tube indicating 73 degrees parallel - the Galaxy was 72 iirc) and a shorter wheelbase making for a responsive ride.

Anyway, good luck with your rebuild and shout if I can help in any way.
 

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Hi Stefan. I'm afraid there was very little in the way of custom ordering available from Dawes at this point in their history - although having said that they did include a couple of bare framesets in their catalogue (might even have been 1982). I used to work in a bike shop that ran the Dawes range at around this time and was lucky enough to get my 1st Imperial as a warranty replacement (with a bit of leaning on the sales rep by my boss I think) after I cracked a rear dropout on a lesser Dawes I'd bough 2nd hand. They also later did me a custom colour on a Ranger frameset but this was not a regular occurrence. Somewhere I posted the summary I did of the specifications of all Imperials from 1982 to 1986 but I can't remember where, so have uploaded a pdf of it for you. This pearl red was the same as the ladies "Fleur" model of that year. I see that I don't have any evidence of what headset was fitted to the 1982 model - though later ones were alloy.

Restomod, eh? Nothing wrong with that. I have 2 imperials, one as original as I can make it and the other "as I would have improved it" in the 1980s. I can't argue that modern indexed gears and brakes aren't better so go for it! It's sometimes a bit of a challenge to find modern bits that still "look right" to my eye but there's no reason to be stuck in the past. The key is understated subtlety; Even in their sunburst paint job years, Dawes were never flash.
I don't think it needs it but if you are contemplating a paint job, Lloyds do all the decals.
The original SR handlebar stems come up often on ebay and polish up very nicely if you can be bothered.
The CT-5LA chainset had an unhelpful 144 BCD, which I think limits you to a 41T inner ring so a good candidate for upgrade.
If you decide to migrate the Shimano stuff to the Galaxy (cheeky suggestion), the Cyclone II gear mechs are worth seeking out and were superbe (Not "Superbe" which was a more upmarket Suntour groupset and would look fantastic on this if you can find one. A few NOS sets pop up from time to time). NOS Cyclone II seem to pop up quite a bit your side of the pond.
If you stick with the Weinmann brakes, they were excellent in their day and very easy to service, but will never have the power of a disc brake setup.

Original saddles are hen's teeth and not worth the money (imagine plastic razor blade) and the same is true of the Benotto-style handlebar tape.
You're not missing anything special by not having the wheels. The Atom hubs are fine but nothing much above ordinary although the Weinmann 571s rims were better than on later models. Spokes were never stainless but 1986 models had chrome double butted ones (which rust if not maintained). For a restomod, you might want to look at sticking on some Rigida DP18s?

I think you'll find the Imperial a pleasant surprise as compared with your Galaxy. It's 531 throughout and has a marginally more upright geometry (you should find a "73" stamp at the top of the seat tube indicating 73 degrees parallel - the Galaxy was 72 iirc) and a shorter wheelbase making for a responsive ride.

Anyway, good luck with your rebuild and shout if I can help in any way.
Thanks so much for the spec' sheet and the detailed descriptions! Really interesting - very cool that you've got 2 Imperials! I had never even heard of or seen one until I bought this one after seeing it listed on the facebook group (Dawes Cycles Heritage) and managing to have it shipped across the pond. The frame is in decent shape (no dents or big rust spots), but will benefit a lot from a full teardown, cleaning/lube and rebuild from frame up. I'm really looking forward to seeing how this one rides - you're right that the Galaxy is about a degree slacker, head and seat-tube angles (72 vs 73), which works out really well as a "gravel" bike, but the Imperial should feel more precise, and I think I'll build this up as more of a road bike with skinny tires, etc. I can definitely feel the difference in weight - 22lbs was pretty light for its day! I imagine I can get it down under 20lbs or so (newer wheels, etc) - the Galaxy is about 23.5 lbs now, even with meatier CX tires, which is 3-4 lbs less than is stated in the catalog (not bad!) I'll post a summary of the restoration once I get it finished. Thanks!
 
No problems; I hope the info is useful. Don't forget the Galaxy weight would have included full mudguards and pannier rack as well as a something like 14-32 block. Little bit harder to shave weight from the Imperial but the alloy headset would be a good start. :)
 
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