srands
Retro Guru
Buying a 2nd hand MTB privately, is it Stolen? Not an easy question!
Much to my surprise today after asking in person at the local POLICE station (Humberside Police), and also via their website, if they could perform a SIMPLE SEARCH on their CRIME REPORTS database(s), to check if a MTB and it's FRAME NUMBER had been reported stolen, in the local county (Their police force), or anywhere in the country (Other police forces).
The replies of the officers at the stations of Humberside Police, was words to this effect: An enquiry can be made to the local police non emergency phone number (Humberside Police non emergency phone number 0845 60 60 222 Any other counties? Then phone direct enquiries 118 500 for the non emergency phone number of the LOCAL POLICE FORCE or look it up in your local WHITE or YELLOW PAGES) with details of the MTB & frame number. The police would phone back within a few days to advise if MTB was reported stolen within the last five years. The officers commented that this is only LOCALLY, if from a different policy force area, the local police can not search this PNC (Police National Computer), hence you would have to phone POLICE FORCE local to where the MTB is being sold (Note MTB may not have been stolen local to either areas though).
Maybe other local Police forces are more co-operative on this matter of national searches? Anybody?
The only advise Humberside Police offered was when buying 2nd hand, GET A RECEIPT FROM THE PRIVATE SELLER, because if the 2nd hand MTB does turn out to be stolen, and you didn't get a receipt from the seller, the police would take the bike off you, and then the price you paid for the bike was for nothing, not funny if it happens to you, especially when bought in good faith, worse off and without a decent MTB.
Obviously if your MTB get’s stolen you report it to the POLICE, they ask for the MAKE, MODEL & FRAME NUMBER, and they advise if they see it again (Highly unlikely), they’ll let you know (Basically you’ll never ever ever see your beloved MTB ever again):
~ IF your bike was insured and was LOCKED, then the insurer may (Eventually, like to wait too long, just getting older rapidly?) supply a voucher to be used at a bike shop for a MTB of equivalent value (or not).
~ BUT if your MTB was NOT locked, but was insured, then the insurer will NOT make any payment (You don't say... What an inconvenience, oh well I'm left with some old lock sawn through, or a lock melted with some corrosive chemical, what a condolence)
Obviously MTB's don't have a registration plate like a car, which makes cars instantly recognisable to distinguish between identical cars with exact same specification. Also when buying a car you can perform a HPI to check if the car is stolen (Amongst other things).
So the only Security Checks on buying a 2nd hand MTB you can perform is:
~ Check if the FRAME serial number is still there and readable (FORK serial as well if visible)
~ Asking to see the receipt the SELLER has when they bought the bike (Eg: Original bike shop receipt)
~ Asking the SELLER to write a receipt to yourself (The BUYER) when you bike the bike
Obviously also worth mentioning that the person SELLING the MTB may NOT be who they say they are, and the HOUSE from which they are selling the MTB, may NOT be their home either. For example the place from which the MTB is being sold, the house/business could be rented by a landlord, or the address is only a friends, or somewhere public, so trying to trace this person at a later date may prove impossible, as that person may NOT live at address and NEVER has done or the people who live there now (Or the landlord) does NOT know of the previous occupants, or does not know of their current address or contact details. NOTE: Direct enquiries can NOT give you a PHONE NUMBER for a residential address, unless you know the name of the person(s) that live at that address who pay the phone bill (Land Line).
Hence you could ask the person SELLING for some recognised ID (Drivers licence), and proof of address (A letter of Utility bill: Elec, Gas or Water), if you DON'T that RECEIPT may NOT credible to the POLICE, PREVIOUS OWNER and THIER INSURER!
If the SELLER has reservations about writing you a receipt, since it doesn't really involve must effort, then I would be doubtful, unless they think you might return it to the seller for a return.
You might say why bother, well it's not any effort, and you wouldn't want to buy somebody else’s stolen MTB would, remember the thief got it for free, so I guess courier costs and ebay charges won't be much to them, and the rest for them is pure profit, money for nothing.
If you've ever had a MTB stolen, you'll know how annoying this is.
Don't buy somebody else MTB, that losing was their misery.
Personnely I had a Cannondale stolen, I'd just bought a house, and was wondering where to put a hanger bracket on a wall, the next time I looked my bike was gone, so no worries about leaving it perched against a sofa/suite instead then.
Years before that I had a Boss (British Eagle's ALU with DX) stolen, my Flite seat titanium rail has miraculously snapped, I'd just put on another seat outside a shop, next time I looked my bike was gone.
About the same time my younger Bro's Al Carter Black Panther (Dx) got stolen from my parents garden summer house, the thieves scaled some trees and over a 6ft wall, without waking the dog, that goes mental over even squirrels.
Thieves, twats aren't they, well if you don't lock your bike, they will just ride away with it, and obviously there are the twats you'll take massive risks to break into your house/tool shed, just to get your bike.
Believe me when something is stolen, it is far more annoying then when something breaks. Remember when something is less then a year old and needs constantly returning because of faults, OR your big purchase is just over a year, hence the warranty isn't valid any more, that is REALLY ANNOYING ISN'T IT, not as annoying as having a big purchase stolen, believe me.
ANYWAY want to search for somebody, or the local POLICE? Then look at these websites:
British Telecom http://www.thephonebook.bt.com/publisha ... l=&Street=
192 (Search persons who pay Council Tax) http://www.192.com/people/advanced/
118 http://www.118.com/
HULL HUMBERSIDE COLOURPAGES http://www.colourpages.com/
Much to my surprise today after asking in person at the local POLICE station (Humberside Police), and also via their website, if they could perform a SIMPLE SEARCH on their CRIME REPORTS database(s), to check if a MTB and it's FRAME NUMBER had been reported stolen, in the local county (Their police force), or anywhere in the country (Other police forces).
The replies of the officers at the stations of Humberside Police, was words to this effect: An enquiry can be made to the local police non emergency phone number (Humberside Police non emergency phone number 0845 60 60 222 Any other counties? Then phone direct enquiries 118 500 for the non emergency phone number of the LOCAL POLICE FORCE or look it up in your local WHITE or YELLOW PAGES) with details of the MTB & frame number. The police would phone back within a few days to advise if MTB was reported stolen within the last five years. The officers commented that this is only LOCALLY, if from a different policy force area, the local police can not search this PNC (Police National Computer), hence you would have to phone POLICE FORCE local to where the MTB is being sold (Note MTB may not have been stolen local to either areas though).
Maybe other local Police forces are more co-operative on this matter of national searches? Anybody?
The only advise Humberside Police offered was when buying 2nd hand, GET A RECEIPT FROM THE PRIVATE SELLER, because if the 2nd hand MTB does turn out to be stolen, and you didn't get a receipt from the seller, the police would take the bike off you, and then the price you paid for the bike was for nothing, not funny if it happens to you, especially when bought in good faith, worse off and without a decent MTB.
Obviously if your MTB get’s stolen you report it to the POLICE, they ask for the MAKE, MODEL & FRAME NUMBER, and they advise if they see it again (Highly unlikely), they’ll let you know (Basically you’ll never ever ever see your beloved MTB ever again):
~ IF your bike was insured and was LOCKED, then the insurer may (Eventually, like to wait too long, just getting older rapidly?) supply a voucher to be used at a bike shop for a MTB of equivalent value (or not).
~ BUT if your MTB was NOT locked, but was insured, then the insurer will NOT make any payment (You don't say... What an inconvenience, oh well I'm left with some old lock sawn through, or a lock melted with some corrosive chemical, what a condolence)
Obviously MTB's don't have a registration plate like a car, which makes cars instantly recognisable to distinguish between identical cars with exact same specification. Also when buying a car you can perform a HPI to check if the car is stolen (Amongst other things).
So the only Security Checks on buying a 2nd hand MTB you can perform is:
~ Check if the FRAME serial number is still there and readable (FORK serial as well if visible)
~ Asking to see the receipt the SELLER has when they bought the bike (Eg: Original bike shop receipt)
~ Asking the SELLER to write a receipt to yourself (The BUYER) when you bike the bike
Obviously also worth mentioning that the person SELLING the MTB may NOT be who they say they are, and the HOUSE from which they are selling the MTB, may NOT be their home either. For example the place from which the MTB is being sold, the house/business could be rented by a landlord, or the address is only a friends, or somewhere public, so trying to trace this person at a later date may prove impossible, as that person may NOT live at address and NEVER has done or the people who live there now (Or the landlord) does NOT know of the previous occupants, or does not know of their current address or contact details. NOTE: Direct enquiries can NOT give you a PHONE NUMBER for a residential address, unless you know the name of the person(s) that live at that address who pay the phone bill (Land Line).
Hence you could ask the person SELLING for some recognised ID (Drivers licence), and proof of address (A letter of Utility bill: Elec, Gas or Water), if you DON'T that RECEIPT may NOT credible to the POLICE, PREVIOUS OWNER and THIER INSURER!
If the SELLER has reservations about writing you a receipt, since it doesn't really involve must effort, then I would be doubtful, unless they think you might return it to the seller for a return.
You might say why bother, well it's not any effort, and you wouldn't want to buy somebody else’s stolen MTB would, remember the thief got it for free, so I guess courier costs and ebay charges won't be much to them, and the rest for them is pure profit, money for nothing.
If you've ever had a MTB stolen, you'll know how annoying this is.
Don't buy somebody else MTB, that losing was their misery.
Personnely I had a Cannondale stolen, I'd just bought a house, and was wondering where to put a hanger bracket on a wall, the next time I looked my bike was gone, so no worries about leaving it perched against a sofa/suite instead then.
Years before that I had a Boss (British Eagle's ALU with DX) stolen, my Flite seat titanium rail has miraculously snapped, I'd just put on another seat outside a shop, next time I looked my bike was gone.
About the same time my younger Bro's Al Carter Black Panther (Dx) got stolen from my parents garden summer house, the thieves scaled some trees and over a 6ft wall, without waking the dog, that goes mental over even squirrels.
Thieves, twats aren't they, well if you don't lock your bike, they will just ride away with it, and obviously there are the twats you'll take massive risks to break into your house/tool shed, just to get your bike.
Believe me when something is stolen, it is far more annoying then when something breaks. Remember when something is less then a year old and needs constantly returning because of faults, OR your big purchase is just over a year, hence the warranty isn't valid any more, that is REALLY ANNOYING ISN'T IT, not as annoying as having a big purchase stolen, believe me.
ANYWAY want to search for somebody, or the local POLICE? Then look at these websites:
British Telecom http://www.thephonebook.bt.com/publisha ... l=&Street=
192 (Search persons who pay Council Tax) http://www.192.com/people/advanced/
118 http://www.118.com/
HULL HUMBERSIDE COLOURPAGES http://www.colourpages.com/
