Ugly modern bikes

/bangs head on desk

Yes, their frames are made in Taiwan or China. But they don't just skim through a catalogue and go, yup, we'll have 20,000 of those in red.

The idea that less work goes into a modern frame than went into one 20 years ago is, frankly, absurd.

So made to order from china as I said?

Are you being deliberately obtuse now?

No

I've always loved* the assumption that under no circumstances could a Chinese welder have even a fraction of the ability of a bloke in Yorkshire or California

Chances are the welder in china has done more joints this week than most boutique builders will do in their career

Practice makes perfect...

The love and care taken on a bike manufactured in-house in a factory or workshop in England or America means a LOT more than mere technical ability.

Sure, taiwan and China probably have great technicians and workmen, but they're making stuff 'to order', as the workers get their wage, and large Corps give their designs and orders to be built to specifications by people who don't really care whether the order is from Trek or Specialized or Halfords. There are probably Robots which can build and make stuff as well as any Human.

I'd be willing to pay a premium for stuff made "In-House" rather than out sourced any day of the week. In fact, I do this with my clothing, boots, watches and other goods and precision instruments - as long as I am able and they are available.

So yes, Chinese welders are as good if not better than any Englishman or American, but there are probably Robots as good if not better.

Anyway this is straying from the topic.

Modern bikes, in general, are Uglier than those built ten years and more ago.

ibbz":ml0w0izu said:

Sure, taiwan and China probably have great technicians and workmen, but they're making stuff 'to order', as the workers get their wage, and large Corps give their designs and orders to be built to specifications by people who don't really care whether the order is from Trek or Specialized or Halfords.

Click to expand...

Not entirely. Certainly there's probably not the same emotional connection between welder and product as in a one-man custom shop, but what matters is how well it's put together. The big brands take quality control very seriously (because they don't want shoddy product), so the people making them certainly care on that level -- no factory wants a reputation for making crappy frames. And clearly the nationality of the welder doesn't impact upon the pride they take in their own work.

ibbz":ml0w0izu said:

There are probably Robots which can build and make stuff as well as any Human.

Click to expand...

Stuff yes. Bike frames no. Supermarket BSOs might be robot-welded, anything resembling a proper bike is welded together by a person.

MikeD":xe0zwwmj said:

ibbz":xe0zwwmj said:

Sure, taiwan and China probably have great technicians and workmen, but they're making stuff 'to order', as the workers get their wage, and large Corps give their designs and orders to be built to specifications by people who don't really care whether the order is from Trek or Specialized or Halfords.

Click to expand...

Not entirely. Certainly there's probably not the same emotional connection between welder and product as in a one-man custom shop, but what matters is how well it's put together. The big brands take quality control very seriously (because they don't want shoddy product), so the people making them certainly care on that level -- no factory wants a reputation for making crappy frames. And clearly the nationality of the welder doesn't impact upon the pride they take in their own work.

ibbz":xe0zwwmj said:

There are probably Robots which can build and make stuff as well as any Human.

Click to expand...

Stuff yes. Bike frames no. Supermarket BSOs might be robot-welded, anything resembling a proper bike is welded together by a person.

Click to expand...

Well, what matters to me isn't solely how well it's put together, it's that PLUS more - as I explained, and I put far more worth on these things. I would never pay the same for a bike produced in China and one produced in England.

But let's agree to disagree, this isn't an exact science and opinion differ.

Van Nicholas;







Very nice and Modern!

(not sure about the spokes on the 2nd)

(the soft tail, I quite like it)