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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:21 pm 
Old School Grand Master

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:42 pm
Posts: 4343
Umm not too impressed by that. My understanding is that these are high end racing frames, so built to be light weight and precise.

Looks like this has been treated fairly brutally to be honest. I’d deffo wait for the next one - not especially rare, theres a couple of others on eBay right now.


Last edited by xxnick1975 on Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:38 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:00 pm
Posts: 432
Location: Warwickshire
Hi all,

Glad this is generating so much interest as it’s mine.

I bought it fromeBay as a complete bike a couple of months ago.

It was advertised as having a stuck post. I had hoped that soaking in WD40 for a week or so would loosen it but no no avail. I clamped a breaker bar in the seatpost clamp and gently but firmly built up
to a lot of force. This succeeded in twisting the Syncros clamp in the seatpost tube but nothing else.

Anyone who is wondering whether too Much heat has been applied is being pessimistic. You do not need to apply much heat at all to burn off paint. I got it done professionally by Lee Cooper who has been building frames for decades. He knew it was a high end frame and took care to do it properly. It was a 425mm long post with only about 50mm exposed which is why he had to apply heat over so much of the tube.

I did wonder about presenting it a bit better by rubbing down and repainting but this way the buyer knows what they are getting and they have a blank canvas on which to apply the paint of their choice.

If it doesn’t sell in this state for a decent price then I probably will get it repainted as, like MK one says, Pazauidi recently advertised his for £1250 so id easily get a grand for it for the sake of £250 worth of paint and decals but frankly I’d rather do without the hassle.

Bare DB frames with average paint have also been advertised on here recently for over £650, and RC30’s are worth at least £120 so I think I’ve started at a reasonably low price with hopefully plenty of scope to get excited bidders bidding. We’ll see.

I’m happy to consider offers.

Only reason I’m selling it that I’ve decided to just keep my three favourite frames from 94/95. These are my DeKerf, Bonty Race Lite and Fuquay. I’ve only really become interested in DB and Yo In the past few years which is why I’ve decided to move these two on and do proper builds on the three I’m keeping.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:48 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:00 pm
Posts: 432
Location: Warwickshire
And just for info, the main point of DB Race Frances was that they were tough. They weighed what they weighed after Chas had got them as strong and stiff as he felt necessary. This is not a super light frame at just over 2000g vs 1850g or so for the DeKerf and Yo Eddy and sub 1800g for the Bonty Racelte.

Cheers, Matt.


xxnick1975 wrote:
Umm not too impressed by that. My understanding is that these are high end racing frames, so built to be light weight and precise.

Looks like this has been treated fairly brutally to be honest. I’d deffo wait for the next one - not especially rare, theres a couple of others on eBay right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:50 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:02 am
Posts: 937
Location: Hull East Yorkshire - Eng
Markybeau wrote:
Would that amount of heat contribute to making the tube brittle?

Whilst it looks bad I doubt it's been hot enough to cause any structural damage to the frame, still don't get why it hasn't been cleaned up tho... :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:37 am 
Old School Grand Master

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:42 pm
Posts: 4343
Interesting. When I bought mine, I was told Chas wouldn’t sell a standard DB to big guys over 95kg as wasn’t designed to take that weight, and equally my experience of Max tubing is that it’s very thin and dents easily.

This is the one from Hemel right?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=412694&p=3033003#p3033003


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:16 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:00 pm
Posts: 432
Location: Warwickshire
Yes this is the one fromHemel. The seller was a lovely chap who had owned it from 1995. It was immaculate when he bought it and he just used it as his everyday bike. He knew it was special but was happier leaving this locked up outside Lidl/Aldi (as someone in here saw it) than something newer with susp forks and discs as lowlife thieves did not k is what it was.

He was gutted to sell it but It was going to cost him more to replace all the worn parts than he was willing to spend so it was time to move it on

I feel A bit bad about selling it on as at the time of buying it was genuinely going be a permanent part of my collection. But I’ve since decided to downsize.

I don’t know about the 95kg weight limit you suggest. That could be right and in the context of XC race whippets 95kg is quite a lot! Roberts would happily have tuned the frame to the buyers requirement with stronger/heavier tubing as required.

Sinnerman I here knows loads about Roberts if you need specific info.

I paid £800 for it and got somewhere around £400 for the bits (less, not more), paid £120 for the forks and £35 to get the seatpost removed do the starting price represents a slight loss.

But I’m not expecting it to go for the starting price....


xxnick1975 wrote:
Interesting. When I bought mine, I was told Chas wouldn’t sell a standard DB to big guys over 95kg as wasn’t designed to take that weight, and equally my experience of Max tubing is that it’s very thin and dents easily.

This is the one from Hemel right?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=412694&p=3033003#p3033003


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:22 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:00 pm
Posts: 432
Location: Warwickshire
I’m curious to know what sort of cleaning up you would recommend and why that would make it better. I’m not trying to be smart; if you give me a good reason I’ll consider doing it :)

As you say The heat would not have damaged the tube.

For those who are still unsure, All frame builders use this method to remove stuck seatpost. Just think about what sort of temperature paint Melts/burns at. Then compare that with the brass used for the brazing. And then compare that With the steel tubes. It’s nothing.

Cheers, Matt

Graham_hkr wrote:
Markybeau wrote:
Would that amount of heat contribute to making the tube brittle?

Whilst it looks bad I doubt it's been hot enough to cause any structural damage to the frame, still don't get why it hasn't been cleaned up tho... :roll:


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:24 pm 
B.o.T.Y. Winner / Gold Trader
B.o.T.Y. Winner / Gold Trader
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Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:00 am
Posts: 6202
Location: York
Hi Matt,

Not looking for a arguement or any comeback

I guess that people are just horrified to see a bike in this state, especially a Roberts classic, if your target audience are asking questions ( which they are, and you have answered them in detail ) maybe in hindsight you should have considered getting the entire frame shot blasted and presented this way with further explanation as to why you have done this. I do also understand that you are wanting to be as honest as possible for any prospective buyers by presenting it the way you have and showing the remainder of the original paintwork while also not wanting to put any more money into an abandoned project. I get it. But remember your target audience will discuss here first usually and that can work for.... Or against your sale.

I do hope that it finds a home and gets the new lease of life it deserves.

RBG


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:15 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:00 pm
Posts: 432
Location: Warwickshire
Hi RBG

Great comments and thanks for taking the time to post them.

I understand what you and the others are saying and if the listing does not generate sufficient bids then I probably will do what you are suggesting.

Getting it stripped and painted is what I had always intended to do when my plan was to keep it and it was my initial plan when I decided to sell it as I believe I’ll make more of a profit that way. But then I though that lots of people like a project, especially in these times, and a bike either needs a repaint or it doesn’t so it doesn’t really matter that the paint on this is way worse than people would like.

This gives someone the opportunity to choose the paint scheme they want (although I suspect most of us want a classic black and white frame)

However the questions I’ve fielded here suggest most would like to see it painted (but I also need to consider how many people commenting on this thread are actually interested in buying the frame) and the questions I’ve had on eBay suggest most people there would be more interested in buying just the frame or forks, not necessarily both.

Cheers for all the comments everyone. I’m certainly taking them in to consideration.

Ta, Matt

retrobikeguy wrote:
Hi Matt,

Not looking for a arguement or any comeback

I guess that people are just horrified to see a bike in this state, especially a Roberts classic, if your target audience are asking questions ( which they are, and you have answered them in detail ) maybe in hindsight you should have considered getting the entire frame shot blasted and presented this way with further explanation as to why you have done this. I do also understand that you are wanting to be as honest as possible for any prospective buyers by presenting it the way you have and showing the remainder of the original paintwork while also not wanting to put any more money into an abandoned project. I get it. But remember your target audience will discuss here first usually and that can work for.... Or against your sale.

I do hope that it finds a home and gets the new lease of life it deserves.

RBG


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:50 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:55 pm
Posts: 359
Personally I’d leave it as is. If I got that frame, like you said I’d respray it anyway so there’s no point you putting extra money/effort into it. That’s just me though...


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