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 Post subject: Mistery bikeq
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:32 am 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:54 pm
Posts: 118
Trying to find out the brand/maker of this bike I picked up Sat night just before Tier 4 and all came into force.
Clearly not Bertrand (CA or GB one), as the name on the downtube is actually painted on, so could be name of the owner, perhaps after repaint?

Here are the facts and figures:
- 120 rear space & Simplex long horizontal dropouts/no hanger brazed on
- Campagnolo front dropouts
- 27.2 seatpost
- small triangular braze on to prevent DT shifter slipping
- no front badge holes/perhaps filled in
- no front light mount on forks, perhaps filed off
- gear cable guides brazed on (one came off)
- Nervex bottom bracket shell
- Serial number 9667

Gear was mix of DA 2nd Gen black edition gears,shifters,headset/Galli seatpost/Campagnolo Record brake levers, SR Royal crankset (Dark anodised?), Universal Super 68 purple!! anodised calipers/ alloy 27 1&1x4 alloy wheels with 5sp Regina freewheel on one side and threads for single speed one on other side.

Equipment points out to mid 70s, but could this be earlier frameset, looks a lot like late 50s Holdsworth?

Have asked elsewhere, but no concrete answers yet. Anyone can point out any details to find out more?

Images (sorry for quality, bad light down in basement) below. Rear dropout is non drive side, same on drive one, you can see attached claw hanger, not a brazed one.

Many thanks in advance


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Last edited by Foreigner on Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:00 am 
rBoTM Winner
rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:48 pm
Posts: 612
Location: N. Herts
Hi, one question, why isn't it a Bertrand ? It is an early/mid fifties frame, Bertrands didn't have a head badge, I have seen that seat stay end on a Bertrand before, is there a serial number on the underside of the BB ? Thanks Terry


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:05 pm 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:54 pm
Posts: 118
OldTel wrote:
Hi, one question, why isn't it a Bertrand ? It is an early/mid fifties frame, Bertrands didn't have a head badge, I have seen that seat stay end on a Bertrand before, is there a serial number on the underside of the BB ? Thanks Terry



Hi Terry,

Why not Bertrand? I'm not an expert, so have asked elsewhere and was told so :?
Thanks for reminding me of the serial number, have added it to OP, bottom bracket shell is Nervex with standard angle numbers 61 64 ~D22 E38 and Serial number 9667 if that rings any bells?

Cheers


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:21 pm 
rBoTM Winner
rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:48 pm
Posts: 612
Location: N. Herts
Hi, I've attached a photo of a bertrand BB with serial number I was tempted to buy a few years ago, looks thereabouts, included a piccie of the seat lug, I hope this helps. Thanks Terry


Attachments:
Bertand_seat_small.jpg
Bertand_seat_small.jpg [ 135.75 KiB | Viewed 290 times ]
Bertand_BB_small.jpg
Bertand_BB_small.jpg [ 80.03 KiB | Viewed 290 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Mistery bikeq
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:57 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:11 pm
Posts: 2234
Location: wellingborough
I was tempted by that one on facebook marketplace myself but the timing was just wrong .

looked a nice bike in the ad and a very decent price indeed


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:40 pm 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:54 pm
Posts: 118
OldTel wrote:
Hi, I've attached a photo of a bertrand BB with serial number I was tempted to buy a few years ago, looks thereabouts, included a piccie of the seat lug, I hope this helps. Thanks Terry


Hi Terry,

great news re same sequence of serial number and super thanks for all your help. I could glance the same curved bridge on the yellow frame as is on the one above :) Took another image of the seat cluster from the back with the nice long spear going downtube.

Overall the condition of this bike (considering its age) is very very good, almost no rust at all, perhaps was stored in a nice heated garage all its life or was it repainted - I tried to find remains of any other colour and only a speckle of blue in a headtube, but not sure of that either - have checked the web pics of a blue bike here https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/c ... ertrand-c/

What year would you put the two bikes in, you've mentioned early-mid 50s?

All the best and Merry Christmas


Attachments:
Seat cluster.jpg
Seat cluster.jpg [ 1.53 MiB | Viewed 260 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Mistery bikeq
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:46 pm 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:54 pm
Posts: 118
biggs682 wrote:
I was tempted by that one on facebook marketplace myself but the timing was just wrong .

looked a nice bike in the ad and a very decent price indeed



Yes very decent price indeed :D have messaged seller and agreed to come to theirs the same night, just because I saw nicely lined Nervex pro lugs.... glad I did as the bike looks nice and great bits on it too.

The option to switch between geared and single speed is 'news' to me, any idea how this works? Regina BX on the drive side currently, but I'm sure I have a SS Regina on a wheel I was trying to give away for a long time, so it may find it's place now :xmas-big-grin:

Cheers


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:58 pm 
rBoTM Winner
rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:48 pm
Posts: 612
Location: N. Herts
Hi, it must be mid 50's, the nervex lugs point to this, so 53 -56 is the best I can do, you need a reference point ( dated receipt ) to work it out, and there's not many Bertrands left. By the way I think that spear seals it, he did like spear like lugs. Enjoy; Thanks Terry


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:22 pm 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:54 pm
Posts: 118
OldTel wrote:
Hi, it must be mid 50's, the nervex lugs point to this, so 53 -56 is the best I can do, you need a reference point ( dated receipt ) to work it out, and there's not many Bertrands left. By the way I think that spear seals it, he did like spear like lugs. Enjoy; Thanks Terry



Thanks again Terry,

yes he must've liked elaborate lugs, also confirmed by this 1930s bike images on a US site http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Britis ... s_bike.htm

Last question if I may please, there is a small hole on a non drive side, just behind the cable guide, in exact same position as the oil supply one on the US site above, could that be the case? Considering good overall condition (the only real issue is missing a brazed cable guide on a drive side) I can assume that is not a coincidence or a damage of some sort.

Once again good to hear from you, most obliged for all these answers :xmas-cool:


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:11 pm 
rBoTM Winner
rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:48 pm
Posts: 612
Location: N. Herts
Hi, the holes are probably for an oiler, or more likely a grease nipple, and just guessing with the cable guides, the front derailleur guide looks 60/70's, so there has been some mods, usually in the 50's there are two cable stops to hold/guide a stiff outer cable through the BB turn on the drive side, or sometimes a small bracket for a pulley. I would of expected something unless it was originally designed for a fixed wheel, and modified later to take a derailleur, no need for guides then, just some thoughts. Thanks Terry


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