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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:12 am 
Newbie

Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:54 pm
Posts: 5
Old School Hero,

I am very grateful for your assistance and I am persuaded by your expertise and knowledge. The anomalies in the frame are explained by your observations, as highlighted in the document from Holdsworth.

The biggest question now will be what Colour? Holdsworth Team colour or other.

I will make a note to post the finished frame, but that may some time as I have a couple of other frames that I am working on currently and they do suck up the money.

Thanks again,

Kinch


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:23 am 
rBoTM Winner
rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:48 pm
Posts: 594
Location: N. Herts
Hi, i'm not saying it is or it isn't, but in my experiences of trying to identify frames, you need everything to line up, and even then there can be a slight doubt. So what facts have we got, it is a beautifully constructed frame from at a guess the 1960's. The serial number if using the '69', it could be date related, it is stacked 90 degrees from the norm, so you are right to suggest the possibility of it being Reg Collard. Have you checked an example of Reg Collards stacking ? Staying on the numbers, did Reg Collard do any frames pass 69230 ish ? What else to look at, the wraparound stay can be a clue, different builders did slightly different things, also when did any of the frames from the Holdsworth Shop start having frame brazons fitted ? If it was my frame I would like the majority of the questions answered, before declaring an answer, I have no doubt an answer will appear, it deserves one, Mercian did similar things with there 'King of Mercia' build and did other builds for other shops this might be worth looking at, might even be a Condor, they were in between builders at this time. Good luck Terry.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:37 am 
Newbie

Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:54 pm
Posts: 5
All observations are greatly appreciated.

As previously stated my first inclination is to Holdsworth colours, but I am open to suggestions to other period designs.
Also any thoughts on chroming?

Any photographic illustrations of time relevant bikes also would be useful.

Lastly; does anyone know if any publisher has ever thought of a magazine dedicated to Vintage Bicycles. I have searched but there seems to be nothing out there.

Thanks to all for your help.

Kinch


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:30 am 
Newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:11 am
Posts: 3
Morning,

Just recently acquired my first vintage Claud Butler, which I've started restoring. In casting about for informtion I've of course also discovered this forum, which seems to be a bit of a win.

Anyway, as I've got it in bits to clean and fix up (and because I'm going to have some proper daft questions to ask about bike restoration at some point) I thought I better get get registered and share some images of the frame numbers etc to this thread.

Bike was bought as a 1962 but now I've got it it seems more likely that it's late '65 (frame number 26184) 'European' 5 speed.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:58 pm 
BoTM | rBoTM | rider
BoTM | rBoTM | rider
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Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:42 pm
Posts: 4515
Location: VCC Member 5558 East Riding of Yorkshire
Looks like you've got lots of original stuff still on the bike.... don't forget to start a thread on the readers bikes viewforum.php?f=23

Oh, and welcome to the forum!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:37 pm 
Newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:11 am
Posts: 3
Thanks Peachy, yes it seems to all be present and correct, with just the cables and tires not being original / period correct. The chap I bought it from said it was his father's and had been bought new (and that his mum hadn't spoken to his dad for a couple of weeks because of the amount of money he'd spent!).

I'm guessing the bottle cage was an aftermarket part and I'm not entirely sure whether the 'quick release' levers for the brakes are stock? (although they're very neat and work well, so will be going back on).

The only significant problem I'm facing so far is that the nut on the ND crank cotter is just spinning around and not coming off, so I'm waiting to take delivery of a nut splitter to get it off so I can have at the BB. I've not dealt with cottered cranks before so any pointers about an appropriate replacement cotter pin would be gratefully received.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:31 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 10:36 pm
Posts: 41
Hi there. I was directed here from the other Claud thread.

I have this frame, Olympic head badge, simple lugs (prugnat?) frame number 56672. Any help identifying would be amazing. So far I’ve been told it’s probably a 1969 model?

White painted head tube, the rest seems to have been painted black at some point over red?


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:54 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 10:36 pm
Posts: 41
In reply to my above post, first thoughts are ‘69 Electron super 5 but can’t see any in the catalogues that match this finish. Thoughts?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:20 am 
Old School Hero

Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:32 pm
Posts: 208
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
09woodh

Using serial prediction on first page of this thread, #26672 predicts to early 1966. Considering 1966 CB frame features, the simple Prugnat lugs point to either a Spectra, Electron Super 5 or Coureur. (They were essentially identical frames with only distiguishing features being paint schemes and kit.) Using the 1966 catalogue paint scheme descriptions and looking at white head tube with otherwise probable red frame suggest either a "ruby red" Spectra or "bright red" Super Coureur. To me looks like a brighter red in your pic. pointing to a Super Coureur. See CB catalogue @ https://www.nkilgariff.com .

Too further evaluate, was there perhaps kit still present when you received frame? Also if you carefully scrape off some more of black paint in key areas - might find an original name decal towards front of TT or distinquishing band details on ST.

Doug

edited as serial number as written was incorrect


Last edited by CBguy on Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:28 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 10:36 pm
Posts: 41
CBguy wrote:
09woodh

Using serial prediction on first page of this thread, 56672 predicts to early 1966. Considering 1966 CB frame features, the simple Prugnat lugs point to either a Spectra, Electron Super 5 or Coureur. (They were essentially identical frames with only distiguishing features being paint schemes and kit.) Using the 1966 catalogue paint scheme descriptions and looking at white head tube with otherwise probable red frame suggest either a "ruby red" Spectra or "bright red" Super Coureur. To me looks like a brighter red in your pic. pointing to a Super Coureur. See CB catalogue @ https://www.nkilgariff.com .

Too further evaluate, was there perhaps kit still present when you received frame? Also if you carefully scrape off some more of black paint in key areas - might find an original name decal towards front of TT or distinquishing band details on ST.

Doug



Thanks Doug - i wasn't having much luck understanding the guide - AND i've mis-quoted the frame number (26672 as pictured, not 56672)

Not sure if that makes any difference? I'll try to understand more identifying features as I begin working on it.


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