This frame might be an Alec Bird but is NOT a Carlton!

[Midlife]

The seatstay style of that frame is fastback........where the stays join at the seat bolt which is unusual for a Carlton.

Carltons seemed to have shot in stays where the stays join under the seat bolt, either as individual stays or sort of joined together with a longer seat lug.

As mentioned maybe the frame number might help...

Shaun

 

[sawston_vulcan]

Duplicate post!

 

[sawston_vulcan]

Hi all....I spoke to Dave Marsh and he asked for some pics but he is going away for 7 days as of tomorrow...so it might 2 weeks before i get a reply...i will also sending the same email to the 'Carlton Enthusiast'....who might give a quicker response.....i will post all responses.

There are no markings on the track ends only on the BB shell.....the Markings are:

EO 529

According to DM EO refers to the make of BB....pressed steel [i was hoping it was cast steel].....on that evidence alone he doubts it is a Carlton.

Shaun.....when i mentioned the fastback seatstays he said it could be a Raleigh as i know some Raleigh road frames had a similar design of seatstay.

However he did agree there was a reasonable possibility that the lugs were sold at some point possibly after 1981 when Carlton shut or possibly earlier bearing in mind Carlton stopped using the Capella lugs on their frames in 1966!.....My Alec Bird dates i think from 1984...i base that on 531 decal [i looked at Nick Lloyd's 531 decal timeline].....and remember in those days you could not buy 531 decals willy nilly and if one got a frame resprayed...you only got a 531 Renovated decal and only if you went to a 531 frame builder such as Mercian....but i don't think it has been resprayed...i think it is the original paint job.

But here is another pic of an Alec Bird frame....with the legend Alf Engers.....The seatstays are different..but look at the shape of the fork.....looks identical to the one on my frame....at least i think so!

 

[fiks]

but look at the shape of the fork.....looks identical to the one on my frame....at least i think so!

The bend on your forks start about halfway down then straightens out very quickly, ie the lower half of the blades are straight.

Whereas Enger's forks has the bend much lower down, near the dropouts.

Also, many shops and framebuilders when they do or arrange a respray put their own transfers on the frame.

 

[sawston_vulcan]

but look at the shape of the fork.....looks identical to the one on my frame....at least i think so!

The bend on your forks start about halfway down then straightens out very quickly, ie the lower half of the blades are straight.

Whereas Enger's forks has the bend much lower down, near the dropouts.

Also, many shops and framebuilders when they do or arrange a respray put their own transfers on the frame.

Are you of the opinion that the frame was not made by Alec Bird?.....I have no provenance either way.....If not made by AB....Who made it?.....But back in the 1980s resprays would result in a 531 Renovated decal.

 

[sawston_vulcan]

but look at the shape of the fork.....looks identical to the one on my frame....at least i think so!

The bend on your forks start about halfway down then straightens out very quickly, ie the lower half of the blades are straight.

Whereas Enger's forks has the bend much lower down, near the dropouts.

Also, many shops and framebuilders when they do or arrange a respray put their own transfers on the frame.

Are you of the opinion that the frame was not made by Alec Bird?.....I have no provenance either way.....If not made by AB....Who made it?.....But back in the 1980s resprays would result in a 531 Renovated decal rather than an original 531 decal.....but i'm sure someone will challenge that too....but that is what happened to me in the 1980s!

 

[fiks]

I'm just saying the name on the frame is not necessarily the shop/framebuilder/company who built the frame, although an original tubing sticker would mean it's less likely it's been resprayed but it wouldn't rule it out.

 

[sawston_vulcan]

I'm just saying the name on the frame is not necessarily the shop/framebuilder/company who built the frame, although an original tubing sticker would mean it's less likely it's been resprayed but it wouldn't rule it out.

Yes that is a possibility...all i am asking is based on the shape of the frame and forks.....is it an Alec Bird frame? If it is not AB frame who else would be in the frame [sorry couldn't resist that one].....i will contact the seller and see if he has something to add about the frame's provenance.

I am going to change the threads title.....to.....Is this a an Alec Bird frame?

 

[sawston_vulcan]

Its been resprayed.....need to do more research on when and where....but according to a previous owner done recently [ie last few years but around 2009-10]...unlikely to have been done by AB...so perhaps more likely to have been a sympathetic renovation....again open to question.

Tips hat in direction of fiks!

As i get more info...i will pass it on.

 

[Midlife]

As I have mentioned the frame is a bit of an enigma and the true provenance may never be sorted out but it's a lovely looking frame with the very fashionable 70's fastback seat stays which lingered on to the 80's

The pic of Alf came as a bit of a surprise as I always thought he rode Shorter frames.. as a kid my paper round made me 48 pence a week and I seem to think cycling was 30 pence so might not have bought that issue.

Shaun