More tubeless talk. Your thoughts needed

[lewis1641]

Right. I'm convinced of the benefits of tubeless wheels but i've experienced a few problems in my ghetto set up so...

This is my thinking. I'm heavy so i run quite a bit of pressure in my tyres otherwise they feel too mushy. The attraction of tubeless was never the ability to run lower pressures.

So i'm now planning on just using sealant in my tubes. I'm assuming it will still seal holes but i won't have the hassle of trying to get non tubeless tyres inflated without a tube.

The only downsides i can see is a slight weight penalty (i'll have a wee before i set off) and that the sealant has a useful life of about 6 months. After that i won't be able to drain it out, i'll have to bin the tube.

What do you think

 

[dyna-ti]

They scare me :shock:

 

[Andy R]

Right. I'm convinced of the benefits of tubeless wheels but i've experienced a few problems in my ghetto set up so...

This is my thinking. I'm heavy so i run quite a bit of pressure in my tyres otherwise they feel too mushy. The attraction of tubeless was never the ability to run lower pressures.

So i'm now planning on just using sealant in my tubes. I'm assuming it will still seal holes but i won't have the hassle of trying to get non tubeless tyres inflated without a tube.

What do you think

They might seal small thorn punctures ok, especially those where the thorn doesn't remain in the tyre. I can't see them working very well in situations where the thorn is still in the tyre, as surely it's just free to re-puncture the tube again and again - either in the same place or near to it?

On the other hand, this is just the situation that I've found tubeless the biggest advantage - the inside of my tyres must be like a hedgehog, but with the pricks on the inside (clue police car/hedgehog joke ) as although I always pull the most noticeable ones out, there must be loads that have escaped me.

What hassles have you had with tubeless? - actually getting the tyre inflated or sealing it completely once inflated?

 

[cchris2lou]

I used those tubes in a green package with some latex in them . they are quite heavy but they lasted 8 months on average, front lasted longer than rear , before the first puncture .

biggest issue is that your tyres are full of needles and others , so when you swap the tubes you really need to change the tyres too .

 

[stevek]

The thing with UST is that the latex solution needs to go from a liquid to a rubbery compound to seal punctures, it does this when it comes into contact with the air and seems to work very effectively (for me at any rate ). I've pulled large thorns out, spun the wheel and the jizz has squirted out and sealed the puncture within seconds. Sometimes if I can't be arsed I just leave the smaller thorns in the tyre.

Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be the case with latex solution contained within inner tubes (well, they haven't worked for me and I've tried different versions a number of times ). Using the tubes, when you get a puncture the escaping fluid just seems to run around between the tube and tyre and stays liquefied. I wonder if it's because the two surfaces are in contact with each other? Anyway, it doesn't transform into that lovely rubbery compound that allows us to cycle on regardless and before you know it the tyre is flat. The only way I could imagine it working is if the latex leaking out of the tube seals the puncture in the tyre and the tyre being so good a fit that even if all the air escapes from the tube it can't escape from the tyre. I can only say again that this han't been my experience with latex/slime in tubes.

Hope this is of use?

Steve

 

[lewis1641]

thanks for that steve.

andy - nail on the head my friend - i am really struggling to get the tyres inflated. rims are ust but tyres are not. i have done one once with ease but i needed to remove the tyre and havent been able to get it re inflated. the knock on effect of that is a reluctance to use them in the field (if 100psi from a compressor struggles then my mini pump wont do a thing)

i dont know if i am missing a trick. when i mount the tyre i pinch it by the sidewalls and pull it as close as i can get it to seating on the edge of the rim. any other tips?

 

[stevek]

I have inflated the tyres with a track pump before (initial inflation) using the pinch method that you are using and lots of soapy water but it is a bugger to do more often than not. You're better off using a garage air compressor (is that the type you have?) not a plug in car tyre mini inflator thingy, you need lots of volume! Once the tyre is seated there is no problem re inflating with your normal pump.

 

[Andy R]

thanks for that steve.

andy - nail on the head my friend - i am really struggling to get the tyres inflated. rims are ust but tyres are not. i have done one once with ease but i needed to remove the tyre and havent been able to get it re inflated. the knock on effect of that is a reluctance to use them in the field (if 100psi from a compressor struggles then my mini pump wont do a thing)

i dont know if i am missing a trick. when i mount the tyre i pinch it by the sidewalls and pull it as close as i can get it to seating on the edge of the rim. any other tips?

Some rims/tyre combinations just seem to work more easily than others - I've had good experiences of Sun Ringle EQ27/Panaracer Rampage, Mavic 717/ Michelin XC and XC Dry, Mavic 261/ Kenda Nevegal.

Sometimes it helps to build up the rim diameter with a few turns of duct tape before fitting the split innertube "rim strip", but on the other hand, the Michelin XC Dry tyres are a relatively loose fit on the Mavic 717's and yet inflated with one of those Mt Zefal old skool pumps. I think that the shape of the tyre and the smoothness of the bead area has a lot to do with it.
Some folding tyres are a bit "creased" around the bead when you unfold them, and this makes getting a seal a lot more difficult.

It often improves them if you fit them on any old rim, using a tube, and leave them in a warm place for a day or two.

Another tip is to leave the tyre turned inside-out for a day before fitting, as this encourages the beads to stay out towards the seating area on the rim. A load of really soapy water and a sponge helps a lot in getting enough of a seal to allow pressure to build up.
I've never had to resort to a compressor - I've always used a track pump but I do carry a few CO2 cartridges when I'm out. I've never needed them though, as the only time that I "burped" a bit of air from the rear tyre on my Hummingbird I just topped it up with a mini pump.

I can understand why some people give up in frustration, but when it works it's worth a bit of faffing around.

 

[lewis1641]

cool. for refernece my rims are mavic crossland ust and the tyres are michelin xc with kevlar bead. they have been mounted for months with tubes so are in decent "shape"

your comments about the water are interesting - i thought it was just used to show any leaks so i have not bothered to use it. never crossed my mind that it may help with the sealing process too. i'll give that a go.

 

[lewis1641]

I have inflated the tyres with a track pump before (initial inflation) using the pinch method that you are using and lots of soapy water but it is a bugger to do more often than not. You're better off using a garage air compressor (is that the type you have?) not a plug in car tyre mini inflator thingy, you need lots of volume! Once the tyre is seated there is no problem re inflating with your normal pump.

used a huge snap on compressor at my mate's garage. think it was pushing 100 psi