Can I use a cassette with an 11-tooth sprocket?

[The Hundredth Idiot]

I've got a 1991 Marin Pine Mountain (I think - ID hasn't yet been conclusive) with Shimano Deore DX groupset. It has (or had before I took it off and binned it) a 12-28 cassette. I need to buy a replacement and cassettes with an 11-toothed smallest sprocket seem more common and cheaper than those with a 12-toothed. An 11-tooth sprocket would also give me slightly bigger gearing which is not a bad thing as the bike will rarely be used off-road.

But I've got some niggling feeling that some of these older bikes can't take an 11-tooth. I can't think where I've read that and why - whether it is to do with the splined bit on the hub that the cassette slots onto or perhaps an issue with the space arond the rear drop-outs? Anyone able to help and confirm if an 11-tooth will fit fine? Or a way I can tell from looking at the splined bit on the rear hub?

Cheers

 

[MRGRUMPY]

11 tooth sprocket query

You should find that the 11 tooth sprocket does not go onto the freehub as far as a 12 or 13.This is because the splines on the 11 tooth sprocket are not cut all the way through.You can overcome this by fitting a spacer from an old cassette on the hub first before you fit the cassette.This spacer is the thin spacer,usually fitted to older cassettes between the main body of sprockets,and the 2 or 3 loose sprockets.I hope this makes sense to you.Your old casette should have the spacer you need.

 

[one-eyed_jim]

What he said. More here:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#hyperdrivec

 

[The Hundredth Idiot]

Hmm - might have thrown away the old cassette a little too soon.

But I checked before I did and it all seemed to be one piece - no spacers and loose sprockets. Or have I just been an almighty eejit? Or is it that the cassette I just threw out wasn't that old so there was no such spacer?

Ah, here's the article I was thinking of: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#hyperdrivec
Looks like that's how I can tell whether an 11 will fit - and I might just need a new lockring as well.

 

[FluffyChicken]

Ah but you are all missing something.

DX has a 7 speed cassette, so you'll need to get hold of a 7 speed replacement OR get an 8 speed and scrap a ring and spacer (hint go for 11-28 8 speed in that case)

While CRC sell what you need
Cassettes at CRC in £ order
not have a light weight cage. 8 speed often have this (but check) and so you end up with a light weight cassette

 

[one-eyed_jim]

Ah but you are all missing something.

:shock:

DX has a 7 speed cassette, so you'll need to get hold of a 7 speed replacement

yeah...

OR get an 8 speed and scrap a ring and spacer (hint go for 11-28 8 speed in that case)

Which leaves an 8-speed spaced 11-24 if he doesn't want an awkward jump somewhere in the middle.

What are we all missing? :?

And what's missing from this sentence?:

While CRC sell what you need
Cassettes at CRC in £ order
not have a light weight cage.

:?

 

[one-eyed_jim]

I might just need a new lockring as well.

A new lockring comes with every new cassette.

 

[The Hundredth Idiot]

Can you tell I'm new at this bike maintenance malarkey? Previously I've been a "ride it until someone nicks it" type so haven't needed to worry about anything other than a bit of oil on the chain and a bit of air in the tyres. I've moved to a nicer area now - and have somewhere more secure to keep the bike. Plus, I'm finding it's a therapeutic and relatively cheap hobby (at least until I get obsessed about hunting down NOS parts and building a bike more fit for hanging on the wall than riding). But, at the mo, I'm a hopeless noob.

And, sorry, I should have said it is a 7-speed I'm after. That CRC cassette was exactly the cassette I was looking at - bargain compared with the 12-28!

I misread Sheldon on this, "Note, if you install an 11 tooth sprocket on an existing cassette that had a larger top gear, you must also replace the Hyperglide lockring with a Hyperglide-C lockring. The lockrings made to work with 11 tooth sprockets have a smaller outside diameter. If you use a larger lockring, the side plates of the chain will hit the edge of the lockring, and the chain will not run properly on the 11 tooth sprocket. (Hyperglide-C lockrings are compatible with all sprocket sizes.)" I read it as needing a different lockring BUT I've read again and realise he says this is if you install an 11 tooth sprocket on an EXISTING cassette.

So I just need to check whether I have the "Hyperglide-C" body rather than the Hyperglide. If so, good and I'll get the 11-28 from CRC for £14; if not, then it's probably easiest just to spend a few more quid and get the 12-28 HG50 for £20 instead.

Not sure I got FluffyChicken's point about a lightweight cage?

 

[FluffyChicken]

Ah but you are all missing something.

:shock:

DX has a 7 speed cassette, so you'll need to get hold of a 7 speed replacement

yeah...

and I was pointing it out in case 100th had not realise ?
But he has

OR get an 8 speed and scrap a ring and spacer (hint go for 11-28 8 speed in that case)

Which leaves an 8-speed spaced 11-24 if he doesn't want an awkward jump somewhere in the middle.

That should have read 12-28

And what's missing from this sentence?:

While CRC sell what you need
Cassettes at CRC in £ order
not have a light weight cage.

:?

No idea what I wrote certainly a chunk of text has gone missing though.

Though for 100th
Probably something alone the lines, if you buy and 8 speed with the spidered top rings (see that SRAM with the red spider part) then you can make a lighter 7 speed cassette than the 7speeds normally come as. Option often used (by our group) BITD when 8 speeds first came out to run on older 7 speed hubs.

You Deore DX hub is pre- Hyperglide-C. Unless somebody has altered it at some point, which I doubt. (so it just Hyperglide... just in case I delete a large section of text again :twisted: )

 

[one-eyed_jim]

and I was pointing it out in case 100th had not realise ?

I guess I must just be a little slow this evening. I think it was the way you wrote "you are all missing something" that confused me for a moment into thinking you meant we were, all of us, missing something.

That should have read 12-28

Well it's a thought. The only spidered 8spd 12-28 cassette that's ever been made was the (now discontinued) XTR M900. You could throw away the 13 and have a light, mis-spaced 7-speed 12-28 for your £42, if you can find one in stock.

I think I need sleep.