Bill Hurlow built Holdsworth?

[Some Guy]

Today I've heard from someone (I've no reason to doubt), who inturn aparently heard it from the VCC Bill Hurlow marque enthusiast. That Bill Hurlow used a "signature mark" on the chainstay bridge of bikes he personaly built.

Now before I get too excited, sad I know , can anyone else confirm if this is correct? I intend to join the VCC and hopefully get this confirmed myself. But in the interim, can anyone put me out of my misery and confirm or deny this??

Cheers

 

[OldTel]

Hi, this is a tricky subject and most of the info available is a bit vague, and there are lots of red herrings to be found. I've investigated one of my buys which was an easy confirmation as it was a trademark lug ( late No 3 ), correct serial number and Condor ( very helpful ) confirmed my thoughts. So my advice based on dipping my toes into this minefield goes like this : -
First confirm the year of bike - find out where was Bill Hurlow working at this time ( try the Classic Lightweights website, info can be found ).i.e. Bill Hurlow, I believe worked independantly in the sixties, doing frames for Mal Rees, H.E.Green, Condor, the Hurlow brand and maybe a few others, but he stopped making frames for Condor, etc in the late sixties, focusing on the Hurlow brand in the seventies.
What Lugs are they - are they a classic Bill Hurlow Lug, or are they maker standard. Lugless will be trickier to associate, so serial numbers may help.
Trademarks - There are certain things he did at certain times, the rear brake bridges, painting a 'H' ( some posher than others ) at the top of each seat stay, check out
http://www.classicrendezvous.com./British_isles/Hurlow/Hurlow.htm for some good examples. I checked my chainstay bridge and its lightly curved, but then so is my 1960 Elswick Hopper Lincoln Imp, which just shows the problems with this subject.
This is just a guide, and of course the main trademark is the frame, it should have quality stamped all over it. I hope this helps, happy hunting. Terry

 

[roadking]

Hurlow overview.

As far as I know Bill left Holdsworth in 1954 - he left (army) and rejoined a couple of times before this but left permanently in '54.

It is of course Mal Rees and Condor that Bill is associated with, and of course building under his own name which he did from 1958 - he still built for Condor (I believe) during this period.

Bill passed away a year ago.

Rk

 

[Some Guy]

Thanks for the replies, very much appreciated.

From what I've read it seems that he finally stopped building for Holdsworth/Grubb in 1952, had a brief involvement with Paris in '53. An then built for Malrees and Condor in '54. My bike being (in all likelihood) a 1950 Holdsworth, suggests he was atleast there at the time my frame was.

Regarding different details that can potentialy suggest a Hurlow built frame. As has been kindly said, these seem to change depending on where and when it was built. Excepting (it seems??) one detail that applies to all the above marques (including his own branded frames). This detail hasn't been mentioned, apart from aparently by the VCC WBH marque man verbaly. Although, it has also been confirmed by someone who has seen a good number of his (WBH's) frames.

I guess I should really try an get this detail confirmed by all the relevant VCC marque chaps in writing, if possible. It seems such a silly little detail! (which is why I'm reluctant to repeat it yet) But it's one that can only realisticaly be added to the tube prior to it being brazed up, so could be true?

But if anyone has any comments, I'd love to hear them.

 

[roadking]

I know the Holdsworth ME in the V-CC (I'm a V-CC member), but there is not, per se a Hurlow ME in the V-CC. I cannot speak for the Holdsworth ME, but think it unlikely that BH would have"signed"his frames.

Chas Roberts (Snr) for example, did not when he was at Holdsworth.

The best you may get if that BH was there when your frame was built. Oviously if you have a Hurlow frame...

Holdsworths are nice frames - be happy in that knowledge.

Rk.

 

[Some Guy]

Since posting this thread I've recieved messages from two fellow curious retrobikers (forumungers?). They have confirmed that their WHB built frames also have this really quite distinctive, signature / tell / idiosyncratic build feature.

Maybe there is something to this after all? Or just a rather strange coincedence?

 

[stedlocks]

Enlighten us, please!
It won't make any difference to whether yours is, or isn't, and it will help us all who want to know!

 

[Midlife]

you mean a unique feature............like the guy who carves a mouse somewhere on his chairs ?

Shaun

 

[Some Guy]

As said above there are enough "red herrings" out there already, with out me adding to them. So it's probably best if I refrain from potentialy adding another just yet. Although I googled up a some images last night and saw another example :idea:

Midlife: you mean Mousey Thompson?

 

[Midlife]

Yep, none other than Mr Thompson.... the Pub in Sherbourne-in-Elmet had them, quite a few got nicked LOL

Shaun