Riser bars and 'pressuring the front wheel'

[2manyoranges]

It's interesting that comments on here in response to questions are often less mental and oblique than on Pinkbike - put something up there and you can get 'what the F are you asking that for, you m+ron..' when in fact it's a very straightforward question.

And here is my straightforward question.

In prehistoric times, I ran 135 stems with tiny tiny flat bars (X Lite ti etc) and that weighted the front end a lot. Which means GRIP. Of course, combined with low stack height and 26 wheels it also meant TERROR going down steeps and over drop-offs.

Wind forward to 2021...

In running long low and slack bikes (64-65ish head angle) I tend to use 35mm stems and have 140-160 travel under me, but with mahoosive 35 internal rims to give a good pawprint. The thing is this. What is peoples' experience of using 40mm rise bars versus things which are more flat? I know that it's important to weight the front wheel for traction, to avoid washout on the bermy things we now seem to do all the time. But I do like to be able to see ahead, and keep my eyes up...and riser bars help with that...

All comments welcome (apart from any PINK-like abuse, of course...)

Thanks

 

[legrandefromage]

Its 2021??? :shock:

 

[hamster]

The tyre contact area is a function of tyre pressure not rim or tyre dimensions.

Another part of the wheel weighting discussion is the length of the overall frame. Older designs had much shorter stays and therefore it was easier to lift the front due to pedalling / weight distribution uphill. Modern bikes place the rider far further forward of the back wheel - and then with a combination of slack steering and very long fork put the front wheel far forward.

 

[legrandefromage]

2021 Santa Cruz

1999 Superlight

 

[legrandefromage]

Look at the wheelbase changes

You are pretty much sitting behind the front wheel and in front of the rear, any weight shift is almost trying to push the wheels away from each other

*looking at the 2021 bike, I dont think your bars and weight shifting would make any difference, you'd still be in the 'middle' of the bike whereas the old 99 model would be far more sensitive to weight shift, back over the rear for downhill, forward for aggressive climbing.

The 2021 bike, just sit there.

**my own experience of drop-offs and downhill on a much older bike involved a lot of body shifting = weight shifting to get traction and face plant moments right, it took effort to get it right and to react quickly

Again looking at the 2021 bike, its just a case of sit there and let the bike do the work for you and just keep pedalling

 

[rwm1962]

When I ride my lads XL SC Mega Tower I feel like I'm in a hammock between two wagon wheels. It's a beast. He only allows me to ride it about 100ft.

 

[M-Power]

Re:

100% agree with LGF, far more skill and imo fun involved in riding retro bikes on sketchy trails.

 

[My_Teenage_Self]

The tyre contact area is a function of tyre pressure not rim or tyre dimensions.

Interesting, I'd argue that it's a combination of all three, as well as the actual construction of the tyre itself.


To answer the original question;

What is peoples' experience of using 40mm rise bars versus things which are more flat?

I think it's another 'what's the best wheel size?' and 'what's the best dropper length? or even 'Comfiest saddle?'.

I'm 5'8" tall and for my height, I have long legs and a short body. Using a hypothetical 'same' bike, my saddle would be higher than someone else who is 5'8", but with typical length legs. that would drop my bars lower than theirs (vs. saddle height). it would also (due to my body length) mean I was more stretched out on the bike (especially as the higher saddle would put me EVEN further from the bars). So if I ran a shorter stem, and higher bars, that would make sense, Non? That IS how most of my bikes are set up. Typically they're a modern medium frame, I shove the saddle forward, have a short stem, and higher bars.

My XC bike has lower bars than my bouncy bike... Why? because it feels right on that bike (steeper geo, hardtail vs FS, but with only 100mm of travel). That said, I'm still tempted to fit riser bars to that for comfort.

Also, riser bars rotated can increase/decrease the reach too.

 

[legrandefromage]

The tyre contact area is a function of tyre pressure not rim or tyre dimensions.

Interesting, I'd argue that it's a combination of all three, as well as the actual construction of the tyre itself.


To answer the original question;

What is peoples' experience of using 40mm rise bars versus things which are more flat?

I think it's another 'what's the best wheel size?' and 'what's the best dropper length? or even 'Comfiest saddle?'.

I'm 5'8" tall and for my height, I have long legs and a short body. Using a hypothetical 'same' bike, my saddle would be higher than someone else who is 5'8", but with typical length legs. that would drop my bars lower than theirs (vs. saddle height). it would also (due to my body length) mean I was more stretched out on the bike (especially as the higher saddle would put me EVEN further from the bars). So if I ran a shorter stem, and higher bars, that would make sense, Non? That IS how most of my bikes are set up. Typically they're a modern medium frame, I shove the saddle forward, have a short stem, and higher bars.

My XC bike has lower bars than my bouncy bike... Why? because it feels right on that bike (steeper geo, hardtail vs FS, but with only 100mm of travel). That said, I'm still tempted to fit riser bars to that for comfort.

Also, riser bars rotated can increase/decrease the reach too.

Typical pinkbike answer, at least mine had pictures

And probably said the same thing

*I forgot add a smiley from my phone*

**yeah, thats what HE says**

 

[2manyoranges]

Re:

Well LGF I think that's a bit harsh...

...I assume most Pinkbike answers come from deep in the Appalachian woods with the tinkle of banjo battles in the background...da da dum dum dum dum dum da dum… (you know the film...)

And I think is a useful mulling of the variables...I've not got much stack height to play with on the latest COTIC build so I'll think I'll stick a 40mm riser Renthal on it and as recommended play with the rotation to position my upper body weight....