Retro Mavic spoke tension - advice sought

rwm1962

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I've not got around to building any wheels yet but have re-dished & trued a few rims to a pleasing degree.

I found a old Mavic PDF that recommends spoke tensions are 90-110 daN on front & DS of rear & approx 70% less on rear DNS.

I'm not confident on gauging by feel or ear.

Would these settings be ok for pre PDF Mavic rims such as 231, 517, 230, 221, X138, D521, XC717?
 
those tensions should be find with those rims. That said, because I'm no lightweight I tend to take the drive side rear up to about 130 so that the non drive side is high enough. No rim failures yet but I think it's important to get very even spoke tension on each side. I've needed a tensionmeter to do that rather than by feel or by listening to the tone that a pinged spoke produces
 
I can't give you any numbers, but my experience when building with Mavics was exactly like above for the wheel to be stiff enough,
especially road rims. One way - which all the pro like wheel builders here will cringe - is if you don't have a tension meter is
just to accept that getting in the initial ball park is enough, then have about three more sessions of truing after a few gentle rides for
it all to settle.

I'm of sufficient age to remember having wheels built by extremely good wheel builders (for Paris-Roubaix teams etc.) and they
all said come back to the shop with them after a few days of riding for a final tweak. I view wheel building more of an iterative
process than a one shot getting it right immediately.

The more wheel building you do, the better you will develop feel.
 
Thanks both. I'm no lightweight either so may push to 130 too. I'm planning on getting wheels on upcoming builds as good as possible & revisiting past builds - especially the high milers. All part of the fun!
 
How dare you. I'm a lightweight, just like these roadies now, no thicker than a streak of piss or an aero carbon seat-post.

* COUGH * COUGH *
 
Never owned a tension meter. Obviously the drive and non drive sides wont be the same tension due to the dish.

As for THE tension, you will struggle to do much damage to a 26" mtb rim by tensioning it (not so 700c road rims!).

Whats more important is that the spokes on each side are the same tension, otherwise you could find symptoms of wheel failure and running out of true after a few rides.

The range of "good tension" is quite big and getting into that range is fairly easy.

I just click the spokes with my specially grown thumbnail, an ich or so from the nipple and listen...it should ring.....if its dull, its probably too loose.

Its difficult to explain, even after 30 years of building, but my rule of thumb would be if your starting to see spoke twist ( and of course you prepped your spokes and rims properly), your probably towards the end.

One thing thats often overlooked is settling the spokes after tensioning. Just squeeze them together a bit and listen out for the tell tale clink of a twisted spoke " relieving" itself. Do it on the jig.....or it will do it for you first time on the road......and it wil be back in the jig to be trued up again!

Sadly, its one of those things that comes with a bit of experience......which is also an adventure getting!
 
No spoke tension meter here, it sounds like the sort of thing I couldn't afford, or justify the cost of*. I'm a spoke plucker, same as Tootyred. I don't believe it's important to have every spoke at the same tension. In fact, I don't think doing so would automatically produce a wheel that was perfectly true. I'm not sure why that is the case. Perhaps it's because rims, as produced, are not perfectly flat and perfectly circular, and spokes are not all exactly the same. From that point of view, it's inevitable that they'll be a range of spoke tensions in a wheel, and that having a range of tensions is not something to worry about or a sign of a poorly built wheel. I think the only important thing is that all the tensions are in the same ball park. Some of the older machine built wheels were terrible for this, as the machine would consider the wheel to be finished when it was true, regardless of whether some spokes were very slack, and other spokes very tight, although I've heard that modern wheel building machines have much better algorithms, and have the ability to assess spoke tension. For judging whether I've reached a satisfactory level of spoke tension, I just pluck the spokes in an existing wheel, and compare the pitches I hear to the spokes in the wheel that I'm building.

For entertainment, below is a video of a wheel truing machine. At 1:25 there is a process that looks like it is stressing the spokes before re-truing the wheel. For those who are building their own wheels, stressing the spokes can be achieved by putting a length of 12mm diameter wooden dowling into the spoke crossings, and pushing down hard. The alternative is to simply ride on the wheel, and then re-true it.


* I'm the sort of person who considers a bike frame and forks to be a perfectly good truing stand for the small number of wheels I have built.
 
Not a full build as such but as some of the alloy nipples were corroded & binding on the spokes causing twisting I gave them a soak with plusgas & took them all off & exchanged for brass nipples. All dished & running true radially & laterally. It was all over the place before I started. Put the tensions into the Park Tool app & all ticked green straight away.
Those with experience - how's it look? Mavic 230 TIB front.
 

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