Looking for brands/models of ladies bikes with 26"

[ljamesb]

I would second hamsters comment about sloping tube bikes. The reduction in stiffness makes the bike all wobbly and more difficult to handle when loaded, but I can definitely understand it's more convenient for using in town.

Also agree about changing out the stem to fit the bike. Makes a HUGE difference to the comfort of the bike. I bought a cheap adjustable stem, like this a few years back (was about 10 euros). I used it for a couple of years, but now I just use it to help me fit bikes properly. I much prefer quill stems (older type) to ahead stems - so much easier to adjust the fit for touring.

 

[syncrosfan]

I agree with all the people saying you should skip a Ladie's Bike model altogether. Get a light hardtail with a slightly more sloped top tube (I got a light '95 Cannondale F2000 for my wife). The only mods I did were: 1. most important a comfy lady saddle (Terry Butterfly with ti rails), 2. shorter stem for better reach, 3. Ergon grips, 4. shorter cranks, 5. this one might be quite important for your lady: I re-sprayed the frame and fork from its original (Viper red, sigh... I tried to explain to her that it's a really cool racing color but she wouldn't have it) to a fancy White pearl effect paint with blue accents (color matters). With light components on it her bike weighs now 20.8 lbs, and that matters the most. She loves riding this bike waay more than that POS she had before (which probably weighed well over 30lbs). If you want your lady to get into biking, get her a nice bike (we're talking as nice as your bikes, or at least as light) with good functioning components (that drive -train should shift as smooth as butter). She'll be amazed at how awesome a light bike can feel like.

 

[Titiritero]

Looking for brands/models of step through bikes with 26"

Thanks for the suggestions so far!

You need to remember the bike I'm looking for needs to be focused on practicality, and not "performance". The name I have given to the post might not help to that, I should have used "Mixte" (as they call it in France) or "Step-through" as they are called in today's politically correct world, rather than Ladies bikes.

Even though as mentioned those bikes were initially created to allow late XIX ladies to mount/dismount without losing their modesty, it's time to update the misconceptions about them, a lot has happened in the last 120 years! Germany is the world leader in e-bikes and most are actually step-through as they are better suited to their best customers, the affluent retired Germans.

To the risk of excessive reiteration, I'm looking for a "do it all" bike for:
-urban use. Independently of attire, bikes with step-through frames are the only choice in public bikes around the world, because of their practicality in a urban use. Boris bikes are like that, and even the fancy Serotta designed ones in New York.
-long distance touring. Bikes with step-through frames are available in most of the range of very high level touring and travel bikes of world-known reputable brands like Koga or Cube, or models like the VSF T400, Patria Terra, and many others, costing thousands of euros. Even the Bakfiets (those cargo bikes with a huge bucket at the front so popular in Netherlands to carry kids or stuff) have step-through frames. The argument about not being rigid enough under load was maybe true 50 years ago when bikes were made with something cheaper than even hi-ten steel but nowadays is not justified. German and Dutch cycle lanes are full of long distance riders on step-through bikes.
-moderate mtb. My wife has a normal mtb with a standard frame, so that is the one that gets the beating when we get "serious". The step-through bike would be just for the moments in our travels when there is just no road to our destination, which is often when we go outside Europe.

Also, we need to remember that a step-through bike is not just a diamond frame bike where they just chop the top bar and lower it. Usually it is fully re-designed with shorter seat to handlebar distance (check the geometry design of any of the bikes I mentioned above) and a longer and higher headset tube (which leaves the stem/handlebar combo much higher than in a standard bike, automatically increasing comfort at the expense of wind resistance/performance).

Regarding Kona bikes, I checked randomly the retrobike catalogues from 1992 for Kona and Trek, and the Hahanna has a nearly full inch longer top tube than the Trek 820 I was looking for, in size 20". For sure it can be improved with a shorter stem, but the starting point is already unfavorable. Joe Murray and his bike designs are famous for being race suited (and pretty!), but not for having touring/urban riding in mind.

At the moment I'm going to wait and see on the Trek 820 I found. Something better might come up, and if not and this one hasn't sold, I'll be in a better position to negociate a better deal...

 

[hamster]

The fact they are available does not make them ideal. If you are determined to buy one, go ahead.

As a parting shot, I'll quote Tony Oliver, university physics and design lecturer and top-end framebuilder:
'Picture this scenario: a 1-in-5 hill (going up of course), Welsh rain, a head wind. In this situation, I bet you ask yourself the same question I ponder over: "Why do women ride frames where primary structural bracing members exhibit negligible resistance to cyclically applied torque?" After all there is little else to occupy your mind in such misery, and hills are hard enough with a properly designed structure - the men's frame.
There are efficient designs for women but they are rare. The majority of these designs are a disaster, suffering chronic lateral flexure, which absorbs effort in winding the frame up and not projecting forward. I accept that some ladies will not ride a man's frame but I do try to persuade them otherwise.'

Nuff said.

 

[syncrosfan]

Re:

I guess you won't find much love for step-thru "crapola" frames in this forum. The closest thing that comes to my mind would be a Soma Buena Vista women's specific frame. Decent quality, looks OK. Personally I would go for a cooler low top tube design like a Eastern Woods Research frame or a Groove Innovations (offer you almost the same step-thru capabilities while being a million times cooler... but that's my opinion).

 

[raidan73]

Re:

If I was looking for that style frame in particular then this would be a cool choice in MaxOR

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-KALKH ... 1c5765fae3

 

[Titiritero]

Re:

As a parting shot, I'll quote Tony Oliver, university physics and design lecturer and top-end framebuilder...
Nuff said.

Not a convincing statement. I guess I could find as many quotes from reputable builders in the continent, from the brands I already mentioned and many others that include step-thru frames on their range, that could argue step-thru frames are as valid an option as any other. Otherwise they would not keep 4k EUR bikes with that design in their range, and offer life time warranty on them, for people using them in round-the-world trips.

I must clarify I'm not German, but it has happened quite a lot (Cuba, India, China...) that, when cycling through a village, locals will approach me and ask me if I'm German. Apparently, foreigner + bike for them means German. They really put their bikes to test, they just don't write much about it on the English speaking forums, so I follow their brands and designs closely, even if I don't like all what they make... (i.e I find Rohloff hubs a nice thing but way over-engineered for what they offer)

If I was looking for that style frame in particular then this would be a cool choice in MaxOR

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-KALKH ... 1c5765fae3

Nice frame. At that price though I can find plenty of nice complete bikes in the German second hand market. And for little more, some nice new frames too. I'm curious he'll be able to sell at that price!

I guess you won't find much love for step-thru "crapola" frames in this forum.

Yeah, I've noticed that in the bike world there are still very strong regional preferences regarding bike design or componentry. In the "anglo" world (mostly US and UK), racing orientation is quite strong, and since most bike multinationals come from there, bikes reflect this trend (that Sheldon Brown and Rivendell's Grant Petersen have always fought against, as it deprived consumers of everyday bikes, therefore stopping cycling from becoming more popular among beginners). Luckily this is changing.

In continental Europe there are also plenty of "racing oriented" bikes, but the practical side of cycling has always had plenty of choice and there is no problem in finding no-nonsense bikes with step-thru frames, all kind of possibilities to attach extras, comfortable upright positions, lights and mudguards pre-installed, etc.

Another characteristic is, for example in touring/commuter bikes, to use drop bars in US/UK, and flat or butterfly handlebars in the continent. Which one is better? Who knows, I believe it is mostly personal preference, but some very opinionated guys in touring forums would tell you to go with their choice or get it wrong. :roll:

Personally I would go for a cooler low top tube design like a Eastern Woods Research frame or a Groove Innovations.

That Groove Innovations bike reminds me of some early 90's cool Alpinestar models....!

 

[ljamesb]

I agree with a lot of your post. There is definitely a lot of bike nonsense around . Sheldon is an amazing source of information because he always seemed to look at every bike subject with a scientific mind. Not accepting anything at face value and questioning everything, including all the commonly accepted norms.

As for butterfly vs drops, butterfly bars all the way! I absolutely love the 'on the hoods' position on road bars, but that's the only one I ever use, and I suspect it's the same for many others. My favorites are the original Modelo Yuma bars (I think they were the first butterfly bars). They are also the lightest (as far as I'm aware) at 390g.

I just had a look on ebay.de. Here are a few links of interesting bikes I found, which may work for you.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Scott-Damen-MTB- ... 2c9fab2a74

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Kuwahara-Cougar- ... 1c5741d354

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Mountain-Bike-Un ... 419abf0313

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Fahrrad-Mountain ... 3cfebe98f5

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Bulls-Sharptail- ... 4d363b1341

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Diamant-Damenfah ... 35ef35d415

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Giant-Twist-Dame ... 463f35b04e

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Damen-Mountain-B ... 463f3d96df

 

[hamster]

I bet you cannot find a single frame builder who will claim to make a step through frame both as light AND stiff as a diamond. That is the point. The simple fact is that the form lacks the correct geometry to resist pedalling forces without extra thickness. The fact that there is a market for such frames does not provide evidence for their merit. Paired thin tubes are the worst of all. If they were stiffer the all frames would be made of thin tubes...but fat tubes with thin walls are stiffer for the same weight and resist twisting better. However mixte frames look pretty and delicate and so have a market.

Tony Oliver is worth regarding as he took a first principles approach to frame design from sound engineering analysis not fashion or tradition.

German touring bikes are very different from the UK norm, generally having massively oversized ALU tubing. Probably you can make a very adequate mixte frame in that way. As German tourers also favour a very upright position and suspension forks are much more common it suggests very different usage. Probably as much of Germany is way flatter than the UK it plays a big part too and the need to bully the bike uphill is less important. Bavaria is of course a big exception!

 

[Titiritero]

Re:

I just had a look on ebay.de. Here are a few links of interesting bikes I found, which may work for you.

Thanks for all those bike links!! Unfortunately (and this is a problem I often find) all of them are too small (size 46 or smaller). Even in Germany it's not easy to find ladies bikes in the size 50 (20") that my wife needs or bigger. Nevertheless, thanks to your links I see that Kuwahara had quite a few models in their range, and I love their lugged frames, so I will include them on my search! Giant was also in my radar, they also have some nice ones. Instead of the normal ebay, here I use ebay kleinanzeigen (http://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-fahr ... ebote/c217) which is just for regular classifieds, not auctions, and you can filter regionally and check only bikes in my city and surroundings. If I'm looking for a bike, unless I want a very specific model, I prefer to see it in person first.

I bet you cannot find a single frame builder who will claim to make a step through frame both as light AND stiff as a diamond.

Probably. I never disagreed to that point, among other things because I lack the technical knowledge to confirm or negate it. What I was refusing is what many were saying here that step-through frames are a terrible choice, not rigid, or totally unsuitable for carrying luggage. I don't need a physics degree to see them in daily use on the German and Dutch roads, and the owners seem very happy about them.

That is the point.

No, at least not to me. I said I was looking for an urban/touring bike. So lightness does not concern me and stiffness is plenty if I look at the many bikes with this frame loaded to the brim every week on the street market or the ones I meet on my cycling trips. Each use requires a bike (as the manufacturers love to repeat us) and for my intentions the step-through frame seems like a winner. If we were all looking for maximum lightness and stiffness I guess we would all ride Trek Madones.

The fact that there is a market for such frames does not provide evidence for their merit.

To me it does. It means that, for a lot of people, they fulfill their purpose. In this forum we praise many retro designs even though they haven't resisted the pass of the time. The step-through frame has been with us since the beginning, and seeing their overwhelming presence on the e-bike market, it looks like they have a bright future too. If they keep selling so well, it means that even if they might have downfalls, they sure have merits enough for people to keep buying them.

Tony Oliver is worth regarding as he took a first principles approach to frame design from sound engineering analysis not fashion or tradition.

Not saying his opinions are not worthy. Just saying that I've grown wary of framebuilders opinions, because every year they tell us with a lot of complicated computer simulations how they finally got their full suspension frame right (or optimal wheel size, or propietary alloy material, or bottom bracket "standard", or whatever) only to show us something completely different in the 2016 range because... now they finally got it right!. Again!

German touring bikes are very different from the UK norm, generally having massively oversized ALU tubing. Probably you can make a very adequate mixte frame in that way. As German tourers also favour a very upright position and suspension forks are much more common it suggests very different usage. Probably as much of Germany is way flatter than the UK it plays a big part too and the need to bully the bike uphill is less important. Bavaria is of course a big exception!

I think you are mixing here "trekking" bikes (how the Germans call the normal commuter/hybrid bikes) with proper touring bikes. Agreed that trekking bikes are mostly ugly fat aluminium tubing with suspension forks (unfortunately like most brands everywhere nowadays). Also, Germans (and Dutch, and Danish, and Austrians, and...) like to ride upright and add things like mudguards, bells, dynamo lights, etc which no doubt increase the weight, but also the all-day all-season usability of the bike. That is why they usually come as examples on how to do it right in terms of bike promotion.

Touring bikes on the other hand are world known for their quality. Here you can find a compilation by country made by Tom Allen, a famous cycle traveller, and you can see he has quite a few choices in Germany, most of them in steel. And among the UK brands a few have a step-through frame too.. (the "miss Mercian" is gorgeous)
http://tomsbiketrip.com/list-of-expedit ... ing-bikes/

And here is a similar list done in a German speaking touring forum, where obviously they show way more German models (unfortunately they give the brand's link and not the specific touring models in their range)
http://radreise-wiki.de/Fahrradhersteller

I understand many English speakers assume most travellers go on Surly LHTs or Trek 520s and the like because that is what they read on English forums and blogs. But if you stop to think about it, Germans are actually the world leaders in cycle touring equipment, and that is not developed "on the flat cycle lanes around the biergarten"...

-best reputation panniers: Vaude or Orlieb
-best racks: Tubus
-most popular drivetrain for hardcore tourers: Rohloff hub, Pinion
-best bike lighting: B&M, Son Edelux
-best touring grips: Ergon
-best touring tires: Schwalbe Marathon
-best mudguards: SKS
-and a long, long list...