Logo advice

[8690q]

Excellent post Stewie was what I also meant to add.

That's the kind of help with the process I was needing but came across as looking for a free logo.

I'm not wanting a logo like Apple or Nike but a neat way of using the workshop name in a bikey way without being too complicated for replicating in various sizes.

 

[stewlewis]

Re:

Sounds as though you're looking for ideas too: What's the business name and what do you do?

Inkscape, well it's a vector illustration package much like Adobe Illustrator, which is what I use. MS Paint, well that's a bitmap graphics package (not)much like Adobe Photoshop.

Vector, smooth lines described as co-ords, therefore scaleable without losing quailty.
Bitmap, pixels at a set resolution with a colour value, not scalable and blocky. Lines look like steps when blown up.

As for sketch ideas, I'd photo/scan them, place them on your vector package and use the tools to trace them, lots of fiddly editing and tidying but once it's in the graphics package changes can be made quickly. Once you know the package of course.

I'd love to do design for a living, it's just a hobby. Happy to help out though if you want to share some ideas, don't want to step on Bryan555's toes if you want a pro paid commission.

 

[technodup]

My logo advice? Don't get too hung up on it. Nobody makes a buying decision in a small business based on a logo. It's a vanity exercise.

Designers will like to convince otherwise of course, and waffle about identity and branding etc, dreaming they are working for Apple.

 

[bryan555]

My logo advice? Don't get too hung up on it. Nobody makes a buying decision in a small business based on a logo. It's a vanity exercise.

Designers will like to convince otherwise of course, and waffle about identity and branding etc, dreaming they are working for Apple.

I would agree don't get too hung up on it, getting your 'thing' happening is far more important than having a slick logo.

However, getting it right can make a difference. It is the symbol that represents your business and people judge you visually even if not consciously. It also comes down to how much your venture is worth to you. The effort you put in to your visual identity (it's more than just the logo) should reflect the value of the organisation it represents.

thehnodup is wrong about it being about vanity, it's about the visual representation of your company, organisation or movement. It does not have to be slick like Apple or Nike but you will be judged on it. It makes up a part of the impression people get of your company and brand and getting every part right is crucial, even for small businesses.

You are doing the right thing sketching and asking for advice, and what is really key is that you understand that you need to tell the story and get across a core idea about what you do. That is a common feature of all successful brands.

If you feel comfortable sharing your plan on here I'm sure this community would be happy to help, myself included.

 

[bryan555]

Re: Re:

Happy to help out though if you want to share some ideas, don't want to step on Bryan555's toes if you want a pro paid commission.

No worries, I'm not taking on any new projects at the moment. Totally stacked!

 

[technodup]

My logo advice? Don't get too hung up on it. Nobody makes a buying decision in a small business based on a logo. It's a vanity exercise.

Designers will like to convince otherwise of course, and waffle about identity and branding etc, dreaming they are working for Apple.

However, getting it right can make a difference. It is the symbol that represents your business and people judge you visually even if not consciously. It also comes down to how much your venture is worth to you. The effort you put in to your visual identity (it's more than just the logo) should reflect the value of the organisation it represents.

thehnodup is wrong about it being about vanity, it's about the visual representation of your company, organisation or movement. It does not have to be slick like Apple or Nike but you will be judged on it. It makes up a part of the impression people get of your company and brand and getting every part right is crucial, even for small businesses.

You are doing the right thing sketching and asking for advice, and what is really key is that you understand that you need to tell the story and get across a core idea about what you do. That is a common feature of all successful brands.

If you feel comfortable sharing your plan on here I'm sure this community would be happy to help, myself included.

It's almost like I predicted it...

Successful brands have next to nothing in common with what sounds like a small start-up local business. Small businesses waste way too much time and money copying big brands when they have very different objectives, I see it day in and day out. Brand awareness bla bla, it's all nonsense. Small businesses need to focus on the bottom line, what makes money and what doesn't- direct response marketing is measureable, abstract notions of 'brand' are not.

I recommend all my small business clients to put their logo at the very bottom of any marketing material as it's the least important part of it. Get the offer copy right and people will read to the bottom and see it, stick some logo they've never seen before at the top and they've lost interest before they've started.

But like I said, I wouldn't expect a designer to agree.

 

[stewlewis]

Re:

I agree that any small business or startup should concentrate on their product and that should speak for its self.

I disagree about branding being nonsense though, a good brand logo is quickly noticeable and associate with a company. Something has to go on the side of the van. If anyone reads the page of text with the logo at the bottom they'll just think the page is upside down.

No decent designer would sell the fact that their whizz bang sleek logo and branding will make the business profitable, they'd only get bad press because that wouldn't be the result.

And no decent designer would charge a small startup over the odds, they know their target market.

I believe though that any company however small should start out right, adding a logo, branding, stationery from day one will enforce the professionalism of the co.

And that's why someone would hire a designer to take care of all that gumph so the startup could concentrate on their product.

Or in the case of 8690q on here, ask pals who'll be happy to help for free, and maybe just maybe when he's the next gazzillionaire and said logo is known world wide he'll remember the favour.

Clear plastic bottle of water with a hip label and funky advertising anyone?.........
Generic child labour tee shirt with some companies hip brand logo on?..........




PS. I'm not a graphic designer.

 

[TheGreenRabbit]

I recommend all my small business clients to put their logo at the very bottom of any marketing material as it's the least important part of it. Get the offer copy right and people will read to the bottom and see it, stick some logo they've never seen before at the top and they've lost interest before they've started.

But like I said, I wouldn't expect a designer to agree.

As a small business, that is a load of crap, (I am not a designer) yes get the copy right first of all, but isn't the idea of a logo to catch the eye to get you to stop so you want to read the copy ? but if a company has a logo I don't like, I don't read the copy, and a logo down at the bottom of the page makes me think what are they hiding, or do they not believe in themselves, two reasons not to deal with them.

technodup, Can I ask what you do ?

 

[8690q]

I'm thinking that I want a logo and now I need to put effort into it even if customers choose me for work quality/price rather than company image. I don't want to be without a wee logo but have worked for a few bike shops where no logo was used, just the name of the business. I'd rather not have a logo than have a crap one though.

I'm going to be Alloa Cycle Repairs and I want a logo to have on my business cards, personal and work vehicles, headed paper and stickers etc.

A bike related shape or 2 incorporating the workshop name would be cool but maybe too common. I come up with the idea of something using a thistle made up of a wheel or chainring as centre part with workshop name as top, crank as stem if chainring or bars as stem if wheel. Not sure what to use to represent the leaves so left it at that. The thistle symbol is fairly relevant to old Alloa.

As long as it's not too complicated I thought it wouldn't need colour to define it and would work in different sizes. The only bad thing I can think of is I was hoping to tie in the logo colours with the colours I painted the workshop surfaces and I don't want purple and green. Play on the traditional thistle colours to suit my needs ? Red and black rule in my world.

I'm taking all this help in as I have been doing from everyone that's been involved in my business idea getting this far. Working as an employee since leaving school has me taking a lot for granted as opposed to being out for myself now.

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the input.

Michael

 

[technodup]

I recommend all my small business clients to put their logo at the very bottom of any marketing material as it's the least important part of it. Get the offer copy right and people will read to the bottom and see it, stick some logo they've never seen before at the top and they've lost interest before they've started.

But like I said, I wouldn't expect a designer to agree.

As a small business, that is a load of crap, (I am not a designer) yes get the copy right first of all, but isn't the idea of a logo to catch the eye to get you to stop so you want to read the copy ? but if a company has a logo I don't like, I don't read the copy, and a logo down at the bottom of the page makes me think what are they hiding, or do they not believe in themselves, two reasons not to deal with them.

technodup, Can I ask what you do ?

I help businesses actually make money by improving their marketing approaches.

Pick any page in the Yellow Pages, one with the square ads about 12 to the page. Virtually every one will be laid out the same way, logo at the top, list of services (features, not benefits- mistake two), contact details at the bottom. If you are looking in the YP you have a need, but 95% of the advertisers don't adequately explain why they address that need better than anyone else on the page. You're in the mix with 10 others doing the same thing with a 1 in 10 chance of a call. If however the top line says, "we fix leaks" or "we'll lower your tax bill" or whatever that is much more appealing than some random logo nobody has seen before. Forget about brand building, that comes about organically through sales growth. Sell sell sell, and worry (or in all likelihood don't worry) about brand later.

I'm not saying don't have a logo, or don't try to convey a certain company image through marketing material. But at a small business level getting across the benefit to the customer is most important, and 99% of logos cannot do that.

It's a funny one, because like I said the vast majority of people do it the standard way I've described. What I find is that these are the same people who complain that advertising doesn't work. Then I ask to see their advert...

And again for clarity I am talking about small local business here, not multinationals, or tech start-ups where it's a different kettle of fish altogether.