Are these Ken Bird frames the same?

fiks":30woe890 said:
Well I'd rather buy from the original (or last) owner and not from a dealer who sticks their nose in the middle and who'll inflate the price.

What's the big deal with "restoration", which usually just means getting a respray and cleaning up. IMO it's not "returning them to their former glory".

Some people want a specific bike which isn't always available as an 'original' bike. Hence the rebuilds, searching for and buying the correct period parts and creating something as near as 'original' possible. Personally, I'd never respray.
So IMO its bringing something back that wouldn't otherwise exist anymore. Just the same as vintage motorbikes or vehicles.
 
i sold a fair bit to HS at a jumble:
-a frame and forks (still for sale on his website)
-2 pairs of tubular wheels i had no use for
- a couple of other bits

i was given a nice handful of cash immediately which i then spent on a custom pair of forks from steve goff - which are nice but in hindsight cost far too much :(
 
oldmuthariley":3qhyycao said:
i sold a fair bit to HS at a jumble:
-a frame and forks (still for sale on his website)
-2 pairs of tubular wheels i had no use for
- a couple of other bits

i was given a nice handful of cash immediately which i then spent on a custom pair of forks from steve goff - which are nice but in hindsight cost far too much :(

Ditto. I get what I want and Hilary pays with no questions. He does an AWFUL lot of miles travelling to jumbles to acquire stock and then strips, checks, cleans and photographs it prior to selling. OK, so he puts a good markup on stuff (I've seen frames I originally sold on his site for anything up to 5 times what I got - but he didn't buy from me so somebody else also made a fair sized margin selling on to him) and you don't have to buy from him if you think the price is unreasonable. Travel the country yourself to jumbles searching for the exact items you want - or do it from the comfort of home.

However, on a negative note, I do reckon that the rapid increase in 'values' over the past couple of years might well have been driven by people seeing what Hilary and similar dealers are offering bike stuff for and matching them even though they haven't 'added value' to the items.
 
Travel the country yourself to jumbles searching for the exact items you want - or do it from the comfort of home.

If you go after the open for public starting time, nearly all the "good" stuff will have been bought up by the dealers (posing as sellers to get in early) to sell for profit, a huge profit in some cases. Of course anyone is free to book a stall at a jumble, put unsellable junk on it, and leave it unmanned whilst they go round buying up stock.

It's not as if the dealers are digging stuff out of the ground, they are buying stuff that would have been bought by somebody anyway at a much lower price. I'm not saying they don't provide a service, they obviously do: they're a one stop shop who'll have a range of products, a place to sell to if you want a quick and easy sale, in the case of HS (not sure about other dealers) good description and background info (although biased to justify inflated prices). So they appeal to people who are time and/or knowledge poor but money rich, prefer to buy from the comfort of their keyboards, prefer not to deal with random sellers who don't have a commercial reputation to maintain, prefer to have the safety of buying from a known dealer.

So the question is does all that justify their high inflated prices? Obviously enough people think it's worth, or maybe they think they either have to pay up or go without. They also inflate prices to a global level by selling internationally.

I'll just add I'm taking about second hand stuff, I would guess NOS dealers source their stuff in a different way.

He does an AWFUL lot of miles travelling to jumbles to acquire stock and then strips, checks, cleans and photographs it prior to selling.
If I'm reading it correctly, are you suggesting the above adds value? I don't agree. You could say (depending on your point of view) buying up stuff from lots of disparate sellers and putting them all in one shop to sell is adding "value", but all dealers do that surely. But stripping, cleaning and taking photos? That's all just part of running the business, like writing an address label, cashing cheques, ordering a courier etc.
 
He still has to allow for his costs for doing that in his pricing as any other commercial organisation would. At the end of the day, if you don't want to pay his prices then you don't have to. I wouldn't myself TBH - but then I'm tight ;)
 
Also, in the interests of fairness, I've seen private sellers on other forums, asking more for similar items........HS pricing is pretty fair, I think.

It's all relative though......if someone wants it, and you have it, negotiate!
 
stedlocks":3ex1vjl1 said:
Also, in the interests of fairness, I've seen private sellers on other forums, asking more for similar items........HS pricing is pretty fair, I think.

I agree with this, some of his stuff is very reasonably priced. I've bought stuff from him which I have seen go for more on RB for instance. I've never felt I paid over the odds although I did have one disappointing item off him.

Mark.
 
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