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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:13 pm 
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Location: Dorset
The History Man wrote:
Head badge placement is also suspect in that last pic.

I wonder if her "assets" would be classed as a fairing and banned by the UCI.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:32 pm 
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Back on topic.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:09 am 
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
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Location: held captive by baby haggis in a cave in Scotland
Peachy! wrote:
This thread isn’t anywhere near festive enough....although it is starting to take on some of the best elements of Pantomime....

Dame Dyer walks on, stage left...

DD: “RetroBike a place for serious and thought provoking discussion”

Crowd shouts back...

C: “Oh no it isn’t....”

:xmas-big-grin: :xmas-big-grin: :xmas-big-grin: :xmas-big-grin: :xmas-big-grin: :xmas-big-grin: :xmas-big-grin: :xmas-big-grin: :xmas-big-grin:



He's behind you!!!! ;)

Jamie


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:33 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:49 am
Posts: 505
Location: Hampshire
I'm currently rehearsing for our Christmas production of..
'The Great Ti Raleigh Swindle'.... :xmas-wink: .... I'm playing the back end of a 'Pantomime Elephant' called 'Ti Joe'... this rather suits me as I'm full ot it.. :lol:
:xmas-big-grin: :xmas-big-grin: :xmas-big-grin: ho ho ho :xmas-big-grin: :xmas-big-grin: :xmas-big-grin:


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:11 am 
GOLD | PoTM | Rider | rBOTM
GOLD | PoTM | Rider | rBOTM
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Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:26 pm
Posts: 22472
Location: Northest North Yorkshire. whippet real good...
You’ve changed your tune.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:34 am 
rBoTM Winner
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Location: North Kent Coast UK
The History Man wrote:
Shark has been jumped.


Again.

Oh I don't know I for one have enjoyed the Retrobike Christmas Panto I mean it has everything, a meandering story line, an enormous volte face, real Ferrari's, far eastern knock off Ferrari's, TDF winners on horseback, a reluctant pantomime dame, a pretty lady for the dads and of course lashings of oh no you didnt's. Getting me to like a panto is saying something because my rule is that I will only attend a panto if it contains a member of the Young Ones and I'm not sure Adrian Edmondson is a Retrobike member.

On the bike/frame itself I can see the decal issue (I didn't I must admit until it was pointed out) but now I can't unsee it although I do still think that it's a bit of a side issue compared to the quality of the bike itself. There is a converse to it of course in that its now easy to spot a refurb or even a fake against a real one with just a glance.

I like the idea of what Raleigh attempted but if I'm honest it's the sheer poor quality of the frame itself against its price that I'm most unhappy with, its just shockingly poor and no amount of glitter will fix that. Its a marketing project first and foremost and I'm still convinced we weren't the primary market for it and the fact they're still stuck with a good few says a lot.

The Japanese Araya frames in contrast are a thing of beauty and its not as if there aren't people about in other parts of the world capable of quality work so its not that it can't be done. Sadly I expect to see them going cheap in some outlet somewhere in about 6 months time.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:51 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:49 am
Posts: 505
Location: Hampshire
A Raleigh Team Professional was on top of my Christmas list for 1980 :xmas-big-grin: ...I was very disappointed when Santa didn't bring me one.. :cry: .. and got Subbutio instead.. :cry: ...I hate football. Mum said Santa couldn't get the Raleigh down the chimney..I knew she was lying cos we lived in a tower block..:roll:
Move on 40 years a I've finally got one.. :D ... but it's in the wrong bloody colour.. :?
Still it's lighter than the new Ti 40 at 2000g for frame and 600g for the fork.. so like many are asking why is the 753 so heavy.. :?:


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:48 am 
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Posts: 1300
Quote:
On the bike/frame itself I can see the decal issue (I didn't I must admit until it was pointed out) but now I can't unsee it although I do still think that it's a bit of a side issue compared to the quality of the bike itself.



That all goes for me too, Allen. But I'm going to carry on sounding off about this seat tube decal. Because it is a bit of a weird situation.

On the face of it, as far as I can extrapolate, we have an 'original' transfer that probably was originally designed by simply separating the letters of the down tube transfer and stacking them. Then we have a 'reproduction' transfer that presumably started out the same way, but then somewhere along the design process somebody decided that the letters should lose some degrees of italicisation, either for reasons of aesthetics, or legibility.

The fact that this tinkering seems to have passed beneath the notice (or in many cases, the care) of apparently devoted Raleigh-philes, including one with a fifty-odd collection who has meticulously catalogued the 'authentic' format, dimensions and frame position of every little transfer you would expect on a SBDU frame, perhaps bears testament to the quality and subtlety of this re-design.

These re-designed seat tube transfers seem to emanate from a well respected transfer supplier who are, in their small way, in the small world of racing bike enthusiasts, just as much of a venerable institution as Raleigh, and seem to supply their transfers to most of the well respected professional re-finishers of bicycle frames.

The fact that an alternative seat tube transfer with one letter returned to it's original degree of italicisation has apparently become available from some source suggests that at some point in forty-odd years someone has made some noise about the disparity between the existing reproduction transfer and the original, and someone has made a half-hearted attempt to humour them.

At any rate, I flatter myself that I have done most of what a bod can do with pencil and paper towards offering an 'alternative' seat tube transfer that will not offend the sensibilities of anybody who can not in good conscience apply or consent to the application of the existing reproduction transfers to the seat tube of a bicycle frame. The letters are 20mm high, each seperated by 3mm. From the top of the 'R' to the bottom of the 'H' thus measures nominally 158mm, and the panel in which the letters are placed measures 195mm. These two measures, perhaps coincidentally, correspond to the diameters of 42 and 52 tooth chainrings, minus the teeth themselves.

Edit: Since this picture was taken I have looked at a few more bikes, and as a consequence I have leaned the 'A' a little further to the right, making the right edge of the 'A' vertical- ie at 90degrees to the base of the letter.

Any constructive feedback welcome:


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Last edited by torqueless on Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:54 am 
rBoTM Winner
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Posts: 862
Location: North Kent Coast UK
vcballbat wrote:
A Raleigh Team Professional was on top of my Christmas list for 1980 :xmas-big-grin: ...I was very disappointed when Santa didn't bring me one.. :cry: .. and got Subbutio instead.. :cry: ...I hate football. Mum said Santa couldn't get the Raleigh down the chimney..I knew she was lying cos we lived in a tower block..:roll:
Move on 40 years a I've finally got one.. :D ... but it's in the wrong bloody colour.. :?
Still it's lighter than the new Ti 40 at 2000g for frame and 600g for the fork.. so like many are asking why is the 753 so heavy.. :?:

:lol: See you set your sights too high, I asked for a BSA TDF back then which should have been a reasonable expectation, still didn't get it and yes it took me 40 years to scratch that meagre itch but I did get closer that Christmas as I got a nice shiny red Puch Prima 12 which is still better than getting a Subbuteo :xmas-big-grin:


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:58 am 
rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:31 am
Posts: 862
Location: North Kent Coast UK
torqueless wrote:
That all goes for me too, Allen. But I'm going to carry on sounding off about this seat tube decal. Because it is a bit of a weird situation.

On the face of it, as far as I can extrapolate, we have an 'original' transfer that probably was originally designed by simply separating the letters of the down tube transfer and stacking them. Then we have a 'reproduction' transfer that presumably started out the same way, but then somewhere along the design process somebody decided that the letters should lose some degrees of italicisation, either for reasons of aesthetics, or legibility.

The fact that this tinkering seems to have passed beneath the notice (or in many cases, the care) of apparently devoted Raleigh-philes, including one with a fifty-odd collection who has meticulously catalogued the 'authentic' format, dimensions and frame position of every little transfer you would expect on a SBDU frame, perhaps bears testament to the quality and subtlety of this re-design.

These re-designed seat tube transfers seem to emanate from a well respected transfer supplier who are, in their small way, in the small world of racing bike enthusiasts, just as much of a venerable institution as Raleigh, and seem to supply their transfers to most of the well respected professional re-finishers of bicycle frames.

The fact that an alternative seat tube transfer with one letter returned to it's original degree of italicisation has apparently become available from some source suggests that at some point in forty-odd years someone has made some noise about the disparity between the existing reproduction transfer and the original, and someone has made a half-hearted attempt to humour them.

At any rate, I flatter myself that I have done most of what a bod can do with pencil and paper towards offering an 'alternative' seat tube transfer that will not offend the sensibilities of anybody who can not in good conscience apply or consent to the application of the existing reproduction transfers to the seat tube of a bicycle frame. The letters are 20mm high, each seperated by 3mm. From the top of the 'R' to the bottom of the 'H' thus measures nominally 158mm, and the panel in which the letters are placed measures 195mm. These two measures, perhaps coincidentally, correspond to the diameters of 42 and 52 tooth chainrings, minus the teeth themselves.

Any constructive feedback welcome:

I did think I'd have a go at doing some with waterslide decal paper on my printer although I don't know how practical that would be or how well they'd last. I do repro decals all the time for models which get lacquered over but they don't go outside in the sun or rain.


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