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 Post subject: Newbie Intro
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:36 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:02 pm
Posts: 24
G'day all, newbie here so go easy!

Long time lurker/reader, thought it was about time i joined.

Casual cyclist on and off for years, had a Carbon Giant Defy through cycle to work scheme a few years ago, sold it, moved to the Surrey Hills, missed having a road bike to exploit the local terrain, bought a rusty retro heap of an Orbit Thompson off eBay a year ago, now I'm hooked to all things retro and steel!

Have just sold the rusty heap having totally re-furbed it, and bought a 1984 Raleigh Competition 531c frame, will be built up in the coming weeks as a 'resto-mod' road machine for tackling the hills in style.


Attachments:
File comment: Aforementioned 'rusty heap' after re-furb.
EEE7DF3F-032A-4DDE-BE8C-176EAF76A1F7.JPG
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 Post subject: Re: Newbie Intro
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:40 pm 
Old School Hero

Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:38 pm
Posts: 193
Hi AW. Looks rather nice. Is that just lacquered steel finish?

Hope you fitted some brown Christophe toe strap and replaced the missing pedal dust cap before you sold it! ;) (Cable stop on the down tube could probably have been flipped around too but these are all opportunities for the new owner, right?)

Any chance of a "before" pic on the Raleigh?


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 Post subject: Re: Newbie Intro
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:48 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:02 pm
Posts: 24
Hi ZG,

Thanks for the comment, yes I just clear coat lacquered the steel, probably not the most durable finish long term but only used it in decent weather so as long as you don't leave it in the sun or wet it should be ok - i considered oiling it as have seen this done on raw steel too. As you say though, opportunities for the new owner.

I Actually sold those pedals separately, and yes the dust caps went back on!

I'll post up some before an after pics of the Orbit, and also the new (old) Raleigh.

It's just a frame at the moment so was planning to document the build on it - the paint is original and very good condition, and have just acquired a set of NOS Shimano 6400 STI brifters and a very nice condition set of wheels with 6400 hubs with Mavic MA3 rims, undecided yet on whether to go full 6400, or crank and derailleurs 6207 with later brakes, as i'm doing some decent 60+k rides in the surrey hills most weeks, and at 85kg I want some decent stopping power!

I prefer the look of the 6207 cranks and derailleurs - any thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:40 pm 
Old School Hero

Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:38 pm
Posts: 193
85Kg! That's one heavy bike frame! :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:55 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:02 pm
Posts: 24
So, the old Orbit has gone to it's new owner today, couple of pics of the restoration of that one and i'll move on to the 'new' Raleigh.

For anyone interested, final build on the Orbit was:

Stripped and clearcoated frmae with painted head tube and seat tube bands, and smoothed/polished lugs, replacement decals from H Lloyd Cycles.
Shimano 105 1050 Front and Rear derailleurs (Rear derailleur polished so no logo as it was too scratched).
Shimano 105 1050 Front/Rear brakes.
Shimano RSX STI Brifters, with Shimano cables and Jagwire downtube cable stops/adjusters.
Shimano Dura-Ace 7200 (I think?) 53/42 Crankset.
Tange Seiki Passage Headset.
Full chrome front forks with lugged crown.
SR Royal 80mm Stem, with SR Sakae Custom Modolo Anatomic engraved handlebars, Velox perforated bar tape.
SR Laprade 27.2mm fluted seatpost.
Charge Spoon Saddle.
Sunshine 5434 High Flange Bubs, with Staral 27 1/4 36 Hole Rims, and Panaracer Pasela 27 1 1/8 tyres.
Sunrace 13-28 7 speed freewheel and Shimano HG31 Chain.

All worked great together, shifting worked well and was a comfy ride for a couple of hours in the hills.


Attachments:
File comment: Final build up.
IMG_5835.jpg
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File comment: Head tube and seat tube bands painted, lugs smoothed and polished and whole frame clear coated.
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File comment: Dry build pre-paint/clearcoat.
IMG_5750.JPG
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File comment: Orbit frame after old paint stripped off - I did clean it up to start with but it was too far gone and peeling off every time it got handled.
IMG_5744.JPG
IMG_5744.JPG [ 648.73 KiB | Viewed 210 times ]
File comment: This was the Orbit as per eBay ad- took a punt as I thought I could see the 531c frame label through all the crud.
Orbit1.PNG
Orbit1.PNG [ 1.29 MiB | Viewed 210 times ]
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:12 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:02 pm
Posts: 24
So, next project is this beauty...in my opinion!

1985 (I'm told but need to confirm) Raleigh Competition 531c, bought as a frame only - 57cm square, in as far as I can tell original Ambassador Blue paint, which is kind of a gunmetal grey in person, with full chrome internally lugged fork, Gipiemme dropouts and fastback stays.

Plans are already afoot for a Resto-mod, retro but modernised build, with full Shimano 600 Tricolor Groupset after I found a set of NOS STI Brifters, apart from a 6207 EX Crankset as I prefer the look, including a Shimano 600 seat post and wheels are 6400 hubs and Mavic MA40 rims, so basically updating it from original spec to late 80's/Early 90's kit.

Cockpit will be Nitto Stem and M151F compact drop handlebars, and first build is going to be black Selle saddle, and white bar tape with black hoods, which should set off the frame lettering nicely (the Raleigh down tube decals may get replaced as they are starting to crack and peel, but will see how they hold up).

Couple of frame pics to whet the appetite - looking to build this up over the next couople of weeks as i'm currently bike-less and hoping there's going to be some more sunny days this summer to enjoy the Surrey Hills on this beauty!

Can anyone help with dating the frame properly - frame stamping on the bottom bracket is: WB5001408

Cheers for now.


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 Post subject: Re: Newbie Intro
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:12 pm 
Old School Hero

Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:38 pm
Posts: 193
Can't help yet - but thanks for posting the pictures. Both look really good.

I'm not sure I'm brave enough to go with the bare metal frame but you did a great job on it (the blue is spot on) and it has a great "refined utilitarian" vibe. Think I would have gone with an SR or 3ttt stem had it been me but otherwise it seems flawless.

I also have an irrational bias against both Raleigh and Shimano, but that frame looks fantastic and I'm looking forward to following the build. It would look great with Suntour Cyclone 7000 stuff on there if it's not too late to tempt you from the dark side.

Actually, thinking about date, you may want to search for Reynolds decal catalogues. I have a vague recollection that there is a page out there that gives dates for each type. Pre about 1985, I think the fork decal was triangular and I'd imagine that downtube decal is quite date specific. Good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Newbie Intro
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:03 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:02 pm
Posts: 24
I found a couple of images of the 85 Raleigh Catalogue - it's been posted on this forum in another thread, and looks to be what I have - the start of the frame number WB5 confirms this according to a couple of sources, B should be February, and 5 is 1985.

I was thinking about trying to piece together the original components so I can swap them over for Eroica at some point, the frame and paint is in such nice condition it would be cool to build it up to original spec down the line, but i'm intending to use it for now and all the Shimano kit has been sourced and is on it's way, so will see how it turns out for now.

Do you think the Suntour derailleurs would work with indexed STI shifters? - Assuming the cable pull is the same ratio I thnk it would, even if they're not designed for indexed shifting, as the indexing is in the shifter?

According to the catalogue it would have had Suntour Cycolne II front and rear derailleurs, Weinmann 405 brakes and levers and a Sugino GS crankset, so i'll keep a look out.

Out of interest, why the irrational bias against Raleigh and Shimano?


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 Post subject: Re: Newbie Intro
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:07 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:02 pm
Posts: 24
85 Raleigh catalogue pages for ref:


Attachments:
Raleigh Catalogue 85_Spec.PNG
Raleigh Catalogue 85_Spec.PNG [ 1 MiB | Viewed 168 times ]
Raleigh Catalogue 85_Competition.PNG
Raleigh Catalogue 85_Competition.PNG [ 1.33 MiB | Viewed 168 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Newbie Intro
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:07 pm 
Old School Hero

Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:38 pm
Posts: 193
AWVelocetec86 wrote:
Do you think the Suntour derailleurs would work with indexed STI shifters? - Assuming the cable pull is the same ratio I thnk it would, even if they're not designed for indexed shifting, as the indexing is in the shifter?

What the shifter is doing is moving a precise length of cable per shift. What it is expecting of the derailleur is for it to move a nominal lateral distance for each index point, thus lining it up with the sprocket. Alas, you're highly unlikely to get this by chance.

AWVelocetec86 wrote:
According to the catalogue it would have had Suntour Cyclone II front and rear derailleurs, Weinmann 405 brakes and levers and a Sugino GS crankset, so i'll keep a look out.


Cyclone 2 is excellent and gives you the opportunity to acquire the (over-rated) skill of changing gear by feel. I'll grant you that indexing is a technically superior solution but there really isn't a great deal in it.

AWVelocetec86 wrote:
Out of interest, why the irrational bias against Raleigh and Shimano?

The Raleigh thing is probably just an adolescent bias which likely came from the time when I was riding a scrappy looking Harry Quinn when all the cool kids had new Raleigh Grifters or Bombers etc., and were determined to let me know how much better their bikes were. Mine weighed less and was easier to ride, so although they could pull wheelies (sort of) I developed a snobbery about what constituted "good" and "bad". If I were to be more mature about the thing (it's about time) then Raleigh also made some pretty good bikes too and not all of them used proprietary thread sizes etc.

I also was an avid reader of bike magazines and the Freewheel catalogue at the time and with the same snobbish attitude felt quite strongly that Shimano basically ripped off Suntour's technically superior designs and then "won" with a bigger marketing budget - in much the same way that VHS triumphed over Betamax. Shimano pretty much pioneered the concept of the group set in everyday bikes, which eventually led to the demise of component specialists.
In summary, the teenager in me is rooting for the small guys with the clever engineers.

I think I read on Velobase that the Suntour Cyclone 7000 chainsets I recommended above were re-badged Sugino, released at a point when Suntour were trying to join in the groupset game.

Incidentally, I may also have a set of 405s knocking around in the spares bin, and have a good workaround to the all too common missing Cyclone 2 pinch nut problem if you decide to go this route.


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