Hennie Kuiper's TI-Raleigh 1976 Team Bike Frame Number HK276

Bargain there even if the forks are knackered...

Hi Neil

I guess you have seen this

https://www.marktplaats.nl/a/fietsen-en ... b9c5b7a618

I've not seen many with a braze on number..

Midlife":2fvbvo0o said:

Hi Neil

I guess you have seen this

https://www.marktplaats.nl/a/fietsen-en ... b9c5b7a618

I've not seen many with a braze on number..

Click to expand...

Yes, seen that one - a great example of how not to photograph a bike for a sale advert. A braze on number plate hanger was an SBDU option so they crop up from time to time.

Hi Neil

I guess you have seen this one as well, doesn't look at all like a Pro Super. Did SBDU do an all chrome option for their 531 frames?

https://www.marktplaats.nl/a/fietsen-en ... ousPage=lr

Midlife":18gacckd said:

Hi Neil

I guess you have seen this one as well, doesn't look at all like a Pro Super. Did SBDU do an all chrome option for their 531 frames?

https://www.marktplaats.nl/a/fietsen-en ... ousPage=lr

Click to expand...

Yep, I've been tagged in this one a couple of times. You are right, it's not a Pro Super, that model tended to have Prugnat lugs and a fast back, with of course 531P tubing. This is a 531c Services des Courses. They did so many of these chrome 531P/531c frames in 1984/85 - all chrome or just fork and stays or just fork.

Hi Neil

Thanks again for the info, and about the braze on number being an option. Every day is a school day as they say.

I wish I had taken notes when working at the bike shop, "Tears in rain" as Roy the replicant said .

originalshinkicker":2o0qoip0 said:

Midlife":2o0qoip0 said:

Hi Neil

I guess you have seen this one as well, doesn't look at all like a Pro Super. Did SBDU do an all chrome option for their 531 frames?

https://www.marktplaats.nl/a/fietsen-en ... ousPage=lr

Click to expand...

Yep, I've been tagged in this one a couple of times. You are right, it's not a Pro Super, that model tended to have Prugnat lugs and a fast back, with of course 531P tubing. This is a 531c Services des Courses. They did so many of these chrome 531P/531c frames in 1984/85 - all chrome or just fork and stays or just fork.

Click to expand...

A comment about the Pro Super one of which I bought new, looking at the brochure I was given at Ilkeston at the time the Pro Super, and I quote:

In most respects they have the same specification (as the 753) but executed in 531 Pro tubing. The basic difference is that the size range goes in half centimetre steps from 49 to 64cm. For these models a Haden De Luxe bottom bracket shell is specified with Prugnat lugs and the range of Cinelli fork crowns to choice.

The whole range of braze ons is available, seat stays can be fast back or on the seat lug side, and road or vertical fork ends may be specified.

The complete colour range is available, and the range of chrome varies from full chrome to chrome fork only. Also available with no chrome.

I was given this 9 page brochure in July of 1985 (I wrote the date on it), I also met Gerald O'Donovan's secretary - among others.

Rk.

N.B mine has a race number tag; probably mentioned when I first joined RB !

roadking":16efrzrt said:

originalshinkicker":16efrzrt said:

Midlife":16efrzrt said:

Hi Neil

I guess you have seen this one as well, doesn't look at all like a Pro Super. Did SBDU do an all chrome option for their 531 frames?

https://www.marktplaats.nl/a/fietsen-en ... ousPage=lr

Click to expand...

Yep, I've been tagged in this one a couple of times. You are right, it's not a Pro Super, that model tended to have Prugnat lugs and a fast back, with of course 531P tubing. This is a 531c Services des Courses. They did so many of these chrome 531P/531c frames in 1984/85 - all chrome or just fork and stays or just fork.

Click to expand...

A comment about the Pro Super one of which I bought new, looking at the brochure I was given at Ilkeston at the time the Pro Super, and I quote:

In most respects they have the same specification (as the 753) but executed in 531 Pro tubing. The basic difference is that the size range goes in half centimetre steps from 49 to 64cm. For these models a Haden De Luxe bottom bracket shell is specified with Prugnat lugs and the range of Cinelli fork crowns to choice.

The whole range of braze ons is available, seat stays can be fast back or on the seat lug side, and road or vertical fork ends may be specified.

The complete colour range is available, and the range of chrome varies from full chrome to chrome fork only. Also available with no chrome.

I was given this 9 page brochure in July of 1985 (I wrote the date on it), I also met Gerald O'Donovan's secretary - among others.

Rk.

N.B mine has a race number tag; probably mentioned when I first joined RB !

Click to expand...

It depends how pedantic we want to get on this really...

The term 'Pro Super' was also used with the term 'Pro'. In 84 they did both the '531 Pro' and '531 Pro Super'. The 531 Pro had no chrome choices and the 531 Pro Super had the chrome options but no option of full paint. So the use of the term 'Super' in 84 indicated use of chrome.

In 85 the single term used was 'Pro Super' (Pro was dropped). The Pro Super had the 4 options of all chrome, chrome forks and stays, chrome forks or nil chrome. In 86 the Pro and Pro Super definition was gone.

Now I never went to Ilkeston (I was only 14 in 84/85), but I do have 800+ SBDU frames and bikes in an archive - so you could say I've seen a few of these. The lug used on the Pro/Pro Super was Prugnat. The most popular choice between the 2 available seat stay options of fastback or side attached was 'fastback'. Of all the 531 Pro/Pro Super I have documented, I would say that the majority (maybe even all), have a fast back. The fast back was so popular from its introduction in the mid SB5000s. It only died away when the Services de Courses (SDC) model became the main SBDU model in 86+ (SDC had Cinelli lugs with double taper side attached stays).

originalshinkicker":23loxz3w said:

It depends how pedantic we want to get on this really...

Click to expand...

Not about being pedantic.

You've rather missed my point, the italic text in my post is quoted verbatim from the SBDU catalogue I was given in 1985, not an opinion but primary source material.

I've desisted from talking about my frameset, or what I recall from my experiences at both Raleigh and the SBDU simply because it could be regarded as hearsay - just as a conversation I had with George Shaw at the time might be regarded.

Thought you might have been interested in the primary source material.

Rk.

roadking":2j3v9epp said:

originalshinkicker":2j3v9epp said:

It depends how pedantic we want to get on this really...

Click to expand...

Not about being pedantic.

You've rather missed my point, the italic text in my post is quoted verbatim from the SBDU catalogue I was given in 1985, not an opinion but primary source material.

I've desisted from talking about my frameset, or what I recall from my experiences at both Raleigh and the SBDU simply because it could be regarded as hearsay - just as a conversation I had with George Shaw at the time might be regarded.

Thought you might have been interested in the primary source material.

Rk.

Click to expand...

Thank you. All my statements about the SBDU are from primary source material.