Salmond v Darling debate: STV

Nah. Nations f*cked!

There might be appetite for change from English, Welsh and Northern Irish people. There certainly should be. Most of them get shafted just as hard as us by Westminster. But that doesn't change the fact that the only time in our history when the ruling elite have given us the chance to 'be a nation again' as the dirge we call an anthem puts it, the democratic majority sent us 'homeward tae think again'!

If governmental change will come it will be as Britons.

I totally disagree that there is no more appetite for change in Scotland. The majority voted for change, quite obviously. You young particularly voted for YES. Lots of reasons to look forward positively.

The one time in our history?

I was well aware of the last time.

While this vote was in Scotland, it has shaken up the whole of the Union.

Now we need to organise politically to build on a very reassuring move forward.

highlandsflyer":wlmsawtb said:

The one time in our history?

I was well aware of the last time.

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A referendum on Independence rather than Devolution?
1979 and 1997 were for devolution. I refer above to proper independence.

I am not saying there is no appetite for change. I am saying that Westminster holds the power and even devo max will not give the power to Holyrood. Scotland is unlikely to get another independence referendum anytime soon, so any real change must come through Westminster. i,e, it will be Britain wide change and not Scotland specific change.

Re:

highlandsflyer":3q8p3sap said:

I totally disagree that there is no more appetite for change in Scotland. The majority voted for change, quite obviously. You young particularly voted for YES. Lots of reasons to look forward positively.

The one time in our history?

I was well aware of the last time.

While this vote was in Scotland, it has shaken up the whole of the Union.

Now we need to organise politically to build on a very reassuring move forward.

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I'd like to know how you come to the conclusion that the majority voted for change. The majority voted no.
We are powerless to influence Westminster, seriously what are we going to do that would have any effect on them?

What reassuring move forward? Who will we organise politically with? Labour? Who connived in 1979 to ensure devolution vote failed and did so again with the Tories/LibDems so yesterday's vote failed. The LibDems? They'll be gone like a fart in a gale next year. You don't mean with the Tories? They are already back-tracking about the so called greater powers to Edinburgh.

Is anyone naive enough to think NO would have won had these vows not been made?

highlandsflyer":tf3lvizo said:

Is anyone naive enough to think NO would have won had these vows not been made?

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I am. Fear, uncertainty, doubt.

It would have been closer, but No would still have won.

We were less than 6% from the winning post.

Ashcroft's overnight poll has some interesting data... if you trust polls



Interesting that a higher % of folk decided to vote yes (21%) in the last week than no (9%). Over 55s, majority no, under 55 majority yes. Also interesting that the figures for women pretty much reflect the referendum result.

To summarise, damn you old fearty ladies

zigzag":2zoak5ps said:

Interesting that a higher % of folk decided to vote yes (21%) in the last week than no (9%). Over 55s, majority no, under 55 majority yes. Also interesting that the figures for women pretty much reflect the referendum result.

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I'm not old, barely even middle aged, and I was only afraid of one thing - those tergiversating socialists getting even more power and dragging our country further down the road of becoming a junior version of North Korea.

I've witnessed the Scottish Parliament blow billions of pounds of real money on achieving zilch other than increasing state intrusion into private affairs - and that was nothing compared to what they wanted to do.

I'm relieved that they and their type have been hindered in this way, and we're well rid of Salmond (though it's far too late to undo the harm he's caused.)

If you really want to live in an insular communist dictatorship then there are still a few left to choose from (thankfully most of them have long since seen sense and overthrown that doomed ideology) - the rest of us don't, and that's why most of Scotland voted No without any qualms whatsoever. I don't know anyone at all who was swayed by promises of extra powers - I for one certainly DON'T want the socialists getting one jot more power, and I think the polls show quite clearly that the majority of us voted No and had no intention of ever voting otherwise.

It's also true that those who actually lived through WWII are some of those most vehemently against division, why is that? Hardly because they're afraid of losing their pensions, that's a risible accusation (they're not likely to live very much longer anyway!) It's because they've witnessed first hand the destruction that nasty little socialists are capable of wreaking upon the world and would do anything in their power to prevent it happening here. Afraid? Hardly, that generation are a sight tougher than any since, who have all been born into a life of comparative ease and luxury...

ajm":2vlamt3j said:

It's because they've witnessed first hand the destruction that nasty little socialists are capable of wreaking upon the world and would do anything in their power to prevent it happening here.

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Are you comparing Hitler and his National Socialists with the broader, accepted concept of 'socialism'?