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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:04 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:10 pm
Posts: 15
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I've wanted an early Carton Flyer for years now as I always loved my Dad's Flam green late 50's Carlton that he bought as a boy a kept for occasional family bike rides when I was a kid. I have a 70's track flyer but when an early one came up pretty cheap early last year I decided to go for it. Since getting it I've stripped the frame downas it was painted in a entirely inappropriate dark green/blue sparkle fade paint job, and started to collect some parts.

I've been toying with the idea of getting an old lightweight built with some type of weird early gear system for a few years, and since I can't afford an osgear or similar and fancied something a bit different I've decided to build this up as an 8 speed with front manual rod-operated changer.

I'm thinking of maybe getting some chrome on this as Carlton often seem to be covered in chrome, and the period catalogue for Carlton shows it being chromed in places, but after stripping the paint of there is no evidence of old chroming-possibly it never had any as post war chrome shortages meant many frames didn't get any due to supply issues/cost....

That said I do like chrome....

I have some really nice green bluemels lightweight mudguards with a spearpoint front I want to foit to it it, so I'm thinking of going for a flamboyant green paint job, with an all light blue seat tube in homage to the old paint I found on the steerer. Possibly with chrome head lugs only if that won't seem odd (?), as the quotes for head lugs AND front/rear dropouts are frankly, terrifying..!

The parts I've collected so far include:

Reynolds Hiduminium girder type stem and bars
Chater Lea oversize type 1240 axle and cups for double chainrings.
Simplex tour-de-france 4 speed 1/8th rear derailleur
Chater Lea single fluted cranks with double adaptor and 46 and 50 chainrings
Brooks B17 Narrow with Oval badge,
Wheelset-Constrictor ASP rims on rear Airlite free/fixed hub and front Powell of Coventry Ultralite large flange hubs
Cyclo rosa rod -front changer (although this for for a braze on fitting which I don't have so need to either find a correct band-on for it or a different band-on front type rod operated lever. Maybe simplex?)
GB Hiduminium Callipers

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:39 pm 
Gold Trader
Gold Trader
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Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:28 am
Posts: 7277
Location: Gorleston-on-sea (If there is a bright center to the universe this is place furthest from it
Shame about the big dent, but after that is sorted this is going to look sweet 8) 8) 8) 8)

 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:45 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:23 pm
Posts: 271
Location: South Oxon and North Pennines
That will build into a gorgeous machine with that selection of componentry.
Some rare stuff there, and a Flyer frame is always a gem.

Chrome front and rear ends will set you back about £150 these days, so not cheap, especially when you add enamelling, lug lining and transfers. But frames do look a bit special with chrome. Post war chromium was a problem. I think nickel ( or copper) was in short supply for a while, and without the copper and nickel layer, the chrome wouldn't last 5 minutes.

I think the Rosa front mech is simply missing the clamp. Unlikely to be brazed on in the 40s. That Powell front hub is a rarity, as is the Chater double converter.

Look forward to seeing how this project progresses.

 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:44 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:10 pm
Posts: 15

That's the thing with chroming, it does look good...but the costs are already would have to get saving.

The Chater Lea adaptor I'm not sure is old stock or a repro. The chap it came from had a number of parts after ending up with their old stock when they closed, and has a few parts (bolts etc made as reproductions) but I'm not sure which mine is. I'm telling myself it's old stock....

The Powell is a lovely hub but does seem very succeptible to loosing condition over the years. I have two and both have very dark greyed flanges and some chrome loss to the barrel, although not much worse that many Airlites...

I see you have a Paragon frame, is it the Nottingham Paragon. I would be interested to see some photos as I have one too from 1950 and you don't see many at all.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:44 am 
r.B.o.T.M. & P.o.T.M. Winner
r.B.o.T.M. & P.o.T.M. Winner
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Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:41 pm
Posts: 2758
Location: Plymouth, UK
Very nice, look forward to seeing more!

 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:34 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:10 pm
Posts: 15
Just got this in the post-have decided to use it instead of the front Cyclo changer. Think it is a slightly later version but will suffice until an earlier simplex other comes up- I do like the Cyclo aesthetically and believe it would be easier to use, but don't really want toyspend half a lifetime waiting for the correct band on fitting. Hopefully I'll find a complete one one day.

In terms of the possibility of chroming. I've got some quotes from Ellis Briggs and looked at Bob Jackson's prices and I can't afford to do all I'd like (as per the 1948/52 carlton catalogue), so I'll have to settle for a little less. I'd really like to Chrome the head lugs, and these re the parts of the frame that are currently in the best nick so should polish and chrome ok I hope. However, the fork and rear ends are quite rough so not sure the chrome would come out all that good in the end, and I don't see the point of just doing the fors ends and dropouts (other than for wear and tear-of which it probably won't get too much) as these will be more or less hidden by the wheel wing nuts/gears etc. Thing is I've never seen a frame with Just the head lugs chromed so am worried it may look a little odd, has anyone else?

The other option is to chrome the fork crown instead/or as well as the head lugs, or just forget the chrome and go for lug/box lining instead or similar....? Any thoughts, opinions etc from anyone else?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:40 pm 
rBoTM Winner
rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:42 pm
Posts: 1351
Location: East Yorkshire
If you have to make a budget choice with the chroming, my advice would be go for the head lugs, you won't regret it. The fork crowns and 8” of fork would look super tidy, but if you don’t get them done this time you could always save your pennies and get them done latter…

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:52 pm 
Old School Hero

Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:43 am
Posts: 161
Location: Adelaide, Australia
There is a useful article on Classic Lightweights which may help you identify that CL chainwheel adapter
Chater-Lea chainwheel adaptors

I have a few bikes in this time period and had the dies made up for urethane casting the Shockstop 'honking' rubbers for the GB Standard Hiduminium brake levers (if this is what you will get to match the calipers) and the rubber cable bands in two sizes for the top/down tubes and for the chainstays. Let me know if you ever need some.

Nice choice of components.

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