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 Post subject: Re: Roy Thame 1973/4
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:06 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:37 am
Posts: 27
Location: East London
Going to rebuild wheels using Tipo hubs. Chap in our club rebuilds wheels, so if I am going to have them rebuilt, will get the best rims I can. Any other early alternatives to MA2s? Any ideas on headset make?

Bike now totally stripped by another friend in the club. Frame and fork match. He also books it as a Quick frame. Dura Ace compact block and 54 chainring and next to no wear in hubs, bb, freewheel etc. Running clement tubs. He is certain it was built for a tester, shod in wheels for grottier surfaced course. He reckons it has seen limited mileage, just raced.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:10 pm
Posts: 1299
The MA2 was an eighties rim. The only 700c clincher rim mid-seventies was Mavic Module-E, along with the Michelin Elan, The first "fake sprints 'n' tubs". I think they were introduced in 1975. So Strictly speaking if it is 1974 you aren't allowed them... only sprints 'n' tubs.. :)

And if you are replacing the headset, you need to think about stack-height.


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 Post subject: Re: Roy Thame 1973/4
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:42 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:37 am
Posts: 27
Location: East London
Do you recognise the headset? It’s an odd affair. Lockring normal, but top race has a drilled hole either side to remove. It’s as if it would need a special tool to tighten.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:10 pm
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Could be a Stronglight V4 or something similar:
http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx? ... AbsPos=184


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 Post subject: Re: Roy Thame 1973/4
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:55 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:07 pm
Posts: 1759
Location: Cotswolds
The headset could be TDC, they made one with 2 holes in the top race to assist with adjustment.

Keith


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:01 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:37 am
Posts: 27
Location: East London
TDC spot on, same as on Hilary Stone. Know little about them. Crown race has some wear. Chrome has pitting. Worth putting back in, or what would be a good alternative.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:54 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:52 am
Posts: 447
Location: Colchester, Essex
torqueless wrote:
Is that the whole number? Four digits?
You might want to clean up the existing paint before making a final decision on whether it needs a respray? Difficult to tell from photos. Could just be dirty from thirty years of storage.

Otherwise, don't let anyone blast it unless they understand and are familiar with old lightweight bicycles and the tubing they are built from.

If the seatpost came out that easy, that's a good omen. You might need to do no more than disassemble each component in turn, clean the parts, regrease and reassemble. Maybe all you'll need to replace are the soft bits.. tyres and bar tape and such...

Thanks an interesting number. We have seen 4D holdsworth factory numbers in the 30's, 60's and again in the 70's. (These can be seen in the Excel database accessed from the history site). The 70's group is a little unusual, some are clearly factory models, but a lot are contract builds for other companies such as Harding & DBS. I tend to view all these numbers as built by other firms or shops under licence and the group does also include one Pollard and a Clive Stuart. Most of these numbers run across the BB either under or on the drive side as the 6D numbers. The position here is also not uncommon for the factory or the shop.

Could this be an early RT built in the shop? The Stuart number is 1013 and reported as 1973. We do have a few frames 'Badged' as a RT with 1969 shop frame numbers, but it is more common to see them with 1974+ numbers. Again all these can be seen in the database. It is clear that things got awkward between the factory and the shop at this time and probably resulted in Roy making his own frames/bikes earlier than mid seventies, he eventually dropped the shop numbers and moved to his own system. Two possibilities I guess if this is correct; a factory sanctioned contract build by the shop or an under cover shop build using the factory number system rather than the std shop number. It is also very common to see cut outs in the lugs on a RT build.

I guess we will never really know, but this is another possibility to consider; ill log it as a RT for now. Interestingly I have just picked up a track frame badged as a Holdsworth that looks suspiciously like the RT Competizione in his 70's catalog. After hunting high and low for a number on the BB I found 55 on the down tube lug into the BB. Never seen a 2D RT number before so assume it is an early post shop numbering frame ~1976?, might put this on the forum for consideration.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:59 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:10 pm
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Quote:
probably resulted in Roy making his own frames/bikes earlier than mid seventies,

Let's remember that Roy didn't actually make them- he just had his name on the tubes.
In the second half of the seventies there was invariably a panel advert in the back of 'Cycling' with the headline: "The road to fame is a Roy Thame frame". Maybe someone with an issue of 'Cycling' from 1974 could have a look and see if there is such an advert in there?


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 Post subject: Re: Roy Thame 1973/4
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:08 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:52 am
Posts: 447
Location: Colchester, Essex
Yes, indeed. It seems he was good at organising things including the frame building. I therefore assume it was the same builders that work in the shop at the time and contractors if thinks got difficult with the factory.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:16 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:37 am
Posts: 27
Location: East London
Booked in with Winston Vaz for repaint. Difficult to drop off now due to travel restrictions. Anybody know the paint codes?

Also, has a 112 offset Dura Ace bottom bracket and struggling to find assymetrical replacement.


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