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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:34 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:13 am
Posts: 36
Thank you Terry, that's great. So were the lugs designed by Stuart Purves? How can you tell which frames were built by SP and which by Ephgrave?
Re your first assumption, I wish I had been pointed to the proper photos earlier instead of the badly doctored ones, but it would have been well beyond me to buy anyway, not a case of being open, sir.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:04 pm 
rBoTM Winner
rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:48 pm
Posts: 577
Location: N. Herts
Hi, sorry, didn't mean to sound off, the main difference you will find other than the different design, was the lug filing, a good ephgrave will have the standard lug design, but also the lugs be filed finely down, this does vary from frame to frame, but that's hand building for you, it sounds like it could of gone for more on ebay with some more proper exposure. Thanks Terry


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:14 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:13 am
Posts: 36
Thank you again, Terry, no problem. So are you of the view it would be SP who designed those two lug options?

I did come across Ephgrave pics of a stripped frame, the lugs standard but the design less ornate and I understand they were an Ephgrave design (attached).

I'm a design fan hence the interest in the minutiae!

As I understand it the ebay listing seemed to have no idea of the origins and was described as a 'barn find'!


Attachments:
ephgrave-bare - front stem side (1).jpg
ephgrave-bare - front stem side (1).jpg [ 100.22 KiB | Viewed 120 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:56 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm
Posts: 9890
Location: Cumbria
the top of that head tube looks like a repair ?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:55 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:13 am
Posts: 36
I'm zero expert but I read it might be original bilaminate welding.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:44 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:07 pm
Posts: 1705
Location: Cotswolds
Is the top tube 1 1/8 inch?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:13 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:13 am
Posts: 36
keithglos wrote:
Is the top tube 1 1/8 inch?


You'll have to ask Hiroshi Asada in Japan...(via classiclightweights)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:19 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:13 am
Posts: 36
It seems Stuart Purves possibly designed the lugs (this is type 1, there was also a cheaper type 2) and drew them up at full size for Les Ephgrave to cut out and braze.

There appear to be only six Purves frames known, this one makes seven, and the frame number suggests Oct 51 frame 13 (year or month not known).

It's possible Purves built this one but it may also be Les Ephgrave as Purves was factory manager for Ephgrave for a period until they fell out. All this from classiclightweights, no credit to me!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:09 am 
Old School Hero

Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:06 pm
Posts: 214
Location: Long Eaton
I just acquired a eclipse routier. I understand from Greg oxenham that he had the frames built by holdsworth. The frame has the number 842207 which seems to follow the holdsworth six digit layout. Does that make sense and if so does the number tell me anything. Thanks in anticipation Bill


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:31 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:13 am
Posts: 36
Hi - This is not quite the right thread - look under Eclipse - but mine is 060855. I am only guessing but that might mean 85/5 is May -85.

I had not heard about Holdsworth making the frames, people often quote Orbit as the frame-maker. By the 80s there was the Holdsworth shop in Putney - that made Roy Thame bikes, and there was Holdsworthy - you might ask Greg which one he used.

Is your bike complete - a photo would be good - they often seem to have come with Campag parts?

I would guess your numbering is a different 6-figure code say may be 1984, but that's just a guess.


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