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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:54 pm 
r.B.o.T.M. & P.o.T.M. Winner
r.B.o.T.M. & P.o.T.M. Winner
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Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:56 pm
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Location: Cumbria land of beauty
It may just be dependant on the level of the frame as there were a few, see link to Sheldon Brown


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:32 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:07 pm
Posts: 1618
Location: Cotswolds
I would expect the TA/49D chainset and Cinelli stem to be 1960s latest, but the frame a lot later.
Your "Il Primo" stem was a cheap and very heavy line produced in UK by the Holdsworthy Company, I sold loads of them for mainly lower spec bikes.

Keith


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:07 am 
Dirt Disciple
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:45 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Cumbria, UK
OK, cheers Keith. Would you concur with the late 70s / early 80s estimate on the frame? Point taken on the il primo stem. Never had it off the the bike but it looks heavy!!!! (If that is indeed possible). I take it that the people asking for silly money on eBay for these currently are having a "giraffe". Anyhow I'll watch the auction one out of interest.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:26 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm
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Location: Cumbria
It has portacatena dropouts which didn't really get going until 1978-9 yet it has nutted brakes which started to die out in the early-mid 80's so between those dates.

The Cinelli cast full sloping fork crown is a bit odd as by that time things had moved on to the semi-sloping jobbies (Cinelli MC)

Shaun


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:45 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:07 pm
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Location: Cotswolds
The TA adaptor and 49D cranks were standard equipment from 1955, before Campagnolo made a crank set. The TA rings were always tougher and better than Campagnolo, both having milled teeth, when the Stronglight rings were pressed. Also the offset (teeth were on one side of the ring not central) meant the chainrings could be closer together. You cant drop the chain between the rings. A difference of 4 teeth was a lot then, because we used 10 evenly spaced gears.

Il Primo was a name invented by Holdsworthy just to sound Italian. The forward extension part of the stem is not quite solid, has about 10mm hole through it. The chrome was better though.

Keith


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:44 pm 
Devout Dirtbag
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Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 9:26 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Halesowen, West Midlands
A bit of inside history.

During my brief period (1982) at Falcon Cycles running the frame shop I also had to oversee the closing of the Barton on Humber Elswick factory. Buried deep in the debris I came across 50 or so rather nice, new, Columbus tubed, Italian built, frames that had been abandoned, unpainted and unloved. Fortunately they were in a part of the factory without the leaking roof so I rescued them, got them all painted and they sold in days.

This is without doubt one of these frames

Andy


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:36 pm 
Dirt Disciple
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:45 pm
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Location: Cumbria, UK
Andy.... Thanks for that. Looks like mystery solved except for trying to put a value on it. Out of curiosity, were they sold to retailers or direct to the public? If it's of any significance the previous owner was based in Huddersfield area. Cheers again.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:59 pm 
Devout Dirtbag
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Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 9:26 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Halesowen, West Midlands
They were all sold to retailers and if I remember correctly they were not cheap as we offered a custom paint job on each one. Several went to a shop in Huddersfield (I don't recall the name) as that's where I was living at the time.

The story goes that they were ordered from a trade show (I'm guessing Milan) by the infamous Ernie Clements when he was running Falcon, but they arrived after he departed and nobody knew what to do with them so they were abandoned. If they weren't in the catalogue the reps didn't want to know.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:25 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm
Posts: 9718
Location: Cumbria
Hi Andy

Thanks for the info. I worked for Cliff Pratt Cycles in Hull and Billy Holmes was our friendly Falcon rep. He got me my Falcon San Remo Equipe road frame which I still have and also the team track frame which I sadly don't

Billy used to bring all sorts of things to the shop but I never remember any Columbus frames, mind you 1982 was just after my time so even Billy might never have seen them.

When you were in charge where there still a bunch of ladies making the higher end frames

Cheers

Shaun


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:08 pm 
Dirt Disciple
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:45 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Cumbria, UK
A lovely bit of history there and it all seems to tie in. Presumably this is why there is no frame number also.


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