How new is retro?

So, I have a 2005 S-Works with 9 speed Dura Ace on my basement trainer as well as a Bianchi 928 and Colnago C50, both with Dura Ace 7800. All beautiful bikes and still super capable but definitely not as retro as my Joe Waugh, Concorde Squadra or the brace of Vitus 979 I have.
Sitting on the S-Works got me wondering where the crossover from retro to modern is. It can't be frame material - one Vitus is aluminum and one is carbon - but where or what is it?
I love my older bikes but they haven't been ridden since 2003. The new bikes are way nicer to ride (blasphemy!) and just as beautiful.
Really interested in other perspectives on this...

Re:

It is weird, isn't it?

Presumably you can go to bed one night as a disreputable loser with a collection of out-dated consumer durables, and wake up the next morning as the vaguely responsible and respectable custodian of a piece of fast vanishing industrial heritage.

I guess a mathematician could work out a formula for how long ago that night would have been, for any given person at any given moment in relation to any given item..

For me it was STi gear levers. For some it's 1987 and for others it's when wool jerseys or when clips and straps died out. You could also argue it's when horizontal top tubes ended or deep rim wheels took over. Take your pick

For me, it's defined by technology/material rather than age.
Downtube or bar-end shifters are retro. STIs/Ergos are not, no matter how old because they are in the vast majority of cases the default current gear changing technology. Single geared bikes are a minefield though!
Cottered or square-taper bottom brackets are retro. All that splined stuff that came after, isn't.
Quill stems are retro. A-Head aren't.
Even old carbon frames aren't retro for similar reasons to STIs/Ergos. The Vitus Fibre De Carbon frames that were coming in when I started racing were leading edge technology.
Rims must be shallow box-section. Pete Matthew's old aero rims don't count - they're space age man!
Clipless pedals aren't retro - even my ancient old Looks that I bought when they first came out.
Frames with sloping top tubes aren't retro. I'm undecided about lo-pro time trial frames though.

That's my personal point of view and let's not forget it's just a P.O.V not anything everybody else has to sign up to so don't flame me!

Mark.

daccordimark":1eta75kb said:

Quill stems are retro. A-Head aren't.

Click to expand...

How about quill stem in A-Head headset?

daccordimark":1x4zfp7m said:

Quill stems are retro. A-Head aren't.
Clipless pedals aren't retro - even my ancient old Looks that I bought when they first came out.

Click to expand...

Pace frames are retro though? And the original Pace, had the first ever aheadset....... (modified 105 IIRC)

And clipless pedals have been kicking around since the 70's. (Cinelli M71) and a quick google tells me they were invented in the 1890s........... the looks were simply the first (?) properly commercialised clipless pedals.

How soon is now?

Re:

I think, etymologically, if you remember using any given something when it was 'state-of-the-art', it is never really 'retro' unless you:

a)mothball it for a certain amount of time, and

b)pursue more recent developments.

For example, say I gave up cycling in 1980. If I happen to pull on my old pair of woolen shorts in 2016 it is not 'retro'. ('a' without 'b')

On the other hand, if I had already traded my woolen shorts for lycra in 1980, woolen shorts are forever 'retro', whether I return to them in 1981, 2016, or anywhere in between. ('a' with 'b')

So, Sean Kelly's toeclips were (and perhaps still are?) not 'retro', just anachronistic..

I think it is the point at which something becomes desirable for what it represents as opposed to what it does.

My example, Shimano Ultegra.
6600 & 6800 (we will ignore 6700 as it was a retrograde step) are brilliant because of how they work.
6400 & 6500 are brilliant because they make you feel nice and they look pretty on you old bike.

Re: Re:

torqueless":3lx2mn6o said:

anachronistic..

Click to expand...

Perfectly put.

This is me with Mountain biking. I have never owned a newer MTB than 1999. I still mountain bike in lycra and a roadie helmet.

Maybe I'm in the wrong place? I should try www.anachronisticbiker.co.uk