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 Post subject: Columbus TSX tubes...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:59 pm 
Old School Hero

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:00 pm
Posts: 172
Location: London
I just made the mistake of selling my spiffy Lemond Team Z replica I've built up over 2 years as i'm going abroad to study again.

I bought it as frame only from France without full columbus sticker present and having done my research, am convinced it was a TSX frame as all the others i've seen were. It felt pretty light, and i had no reason to think this one would be an exception to all the others I have ever seen of the same colourway and builder (it's a Silva Bilato one.)

So. having sold it, I get a message 2 weeks later saying that he'd removed the BB (something i'd never done as it was a mavic SSC and didn't have the tool) and 'This meant that I could check the frame tubes for the internal ribbing - ‘helical reinforcement’ - that all four of a TSX frame’s tubes that join the bottom bracket should have...there isn’t any so this is not a TSX frame''

I'm a bit incredulous TBH as having built it, ridden it, and sold it in good faith I'm not now in a position to say either way, and with the timing of moving abroad in 5 days it will be a total pisser if I have to take it back.

So, if any of you good chaps have a TSX frame and might have shoved a digit or two up it's BB in your time please can you tell me if you would necessarily be able to feel the helical reinforcements from the end of the tube anyway?

The frame is EXACTLY the same as this one: http://www.ebay.ch/itm/Greg-Lemond-Renn ... 5063178261

much obliged guys.


Last edited by Griggsy on Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:44 am 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:08 am
Posts: 6850
Location: Nth Somerset, UK
Sorry, I can't help with identification, but the buyer took the BB out and stuck his fingers inside the frame tubes! Really?

I suppose he then spent the rest of the day polishing the inside of his kettle :roll:

I thought mtb riders were a bit nerdy over provenance, but that's a step too geeky for me.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:47 am 
Old School Hero

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:00 pm
Posts: 172
Location: London
Well, I can understand to a point... When I bought it there was a bit of the Columbus sticker remaining-I'm pretty sure it was TSX, but when someone writes to you with there heckles up saying its definitely not you start to doubt your memory...

Rather than just casually taking the BB out to have a look, I think hes really just stripped it all down for the parts anyway as it had a full C-Rec group on it. Which makes me very sad.

sigh.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:40 am 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:08 am
Posts: 6850
Location: Nth Somerset, UK
He couldn't just ride it, and enjoy it then :roll:

If he was that fanatical about the tubeset, perhaps he should have made that clear when he bought the bike.

Legally, I don't think you are under any obligation.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:02 am 
Old School Hero

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:00 pm
Posts: 172
Location: London
Well, I'm moving in literally 5 days so it's a pain in the ass regardless!

And without the bike in front of me i am skeptical-he already got in touch to claim that the mech bolt was missing, i immediately offered to source another one (c-rec rear mech bolt, easy to find eh?) despite the fact the whole mech had been wrapped and taped so he was definitely the one who lost it.

Funny enough, it then re-appeared. So, whilst I'm sure he's paranoid about me duping him, I'm getting paranoid that he's just after an after sale discount and is trying to find a pretext.

I've offered to take the bike back if it is still in the condition it was when I gave it to him, and asked him to quantify exactly how much the difference in TXS vs something like SL is in terms of money or performance. I have absolutely no idea how I'll be able to sell it again at such short notice, but assuming he hasn't already stripped it, I guess I'll just have to hang on to it for a while and hope to keep it if I get a windfall.

Ebay. ffs.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:16 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 7:56 pm
Posts: 264
As this is an ebay sale, I'd continue along the path of giving him a refund and getting the bike back. It might be a pain, but otherwise you are open to a very real risk that he can open a case against you, bag him self a refund and keep hold of the bike.

That is what I would do, but it still leaves you open to fraud.

The only other thing you can do is settle with him - but if you do that then do it through an open case - IE not just send him a few quid over paypal. There would be nothing to stop him doing the same thing again otherwise!

Is the bike still local to you?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:16 am 
Gold Trader
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Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:40 am
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I don't know if the TSX reinforcements run all the way to the end of the tubes, or are only in the central, thinnest part of the tubes (TSX is listed as "butted and reinforced")

But if the buyer has stripped the bike and it's not as you sold it, then I don't think you should have to take it back.

That said, it sounds like it's going to be difficult for you to prove it is TSX, but also for him to prove it isn't...

A partial refund might be the best way to go in this case, but like you say maybe he's just trying it on.

Ask him for proof that it's not TSX - just because he can't feel any reinforcement doesn't mean it isn't!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:28 am 
Old School Hero

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:00 pm
Posts: 172
Location: London
the bike is in Lancs, I'm in London...

I suppose I can drive up and it will be as much hassle/stress as dealing with the courier.

I don't think he will try to defraud me... and if he does I have his address and a pickaxe through the bonnet in the middle of the night would just about square us up I think.

Seriously, I feel bad for the guy if he is genuinely put out or disappointed-it sold for an amount I was happy with but still, i reduced the asking price a fair whack too, so I don't feel he's been done if indeed it is SL.

If anyone can verify whether you would be able to see or feel the helical bits then that would put my mind at ease a bit, and if so he should be able to take a photo too and prove it. the time constraint is just an extra source of stress but hey ho, got to do the right thing I suppose.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:52 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 7:56 pm
Posts: 264
Am I right to think that SLX has the same helical reinforcement? I have a stropped down SLX frame at home, got a stuck seat post unfortunately so can't see down the down tube - but I don't recall being able to see or feel the reinforcement from the BB shell.

I can check if it is any use to you, best have someone confirm it is the same kind of reinforcement first though :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:59 am 
Gold Trader
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Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:40 am
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SLX has reinforcements too:

http://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/columb ... schart.htm


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