Help! - Issues with vintage Marzocchi bomber fork

[SteezeMachine]

Hello! I’ve decided to join this forum to see if ya’ll could help me. I recently began rebuilding a 1997 Marzocchi Bomber fork, but I couldn’t remove the rubber seals. I ended up ripping the dust seal out, but the oil seal wouldn’t budge and I sort of mangled it in the process of trying to get it out…This revealed a metal structure which seems to be the internal structure of the oil seal. In addition, I also scratched up the inside of the fork lower a bit

I have three questions

1. is this metal bit actually part of the oil seal?
2. will the scratches I made in the fork lower affect anything? Is the fork going to be perpetually leaky?
3. how should I go about removing this stubborn oil seal?

I hope ya’ll can help me, thanks!

Here’s a photo of my handy work:

 

[90's Ninja]

With that damage, you will run the risk that a new rubber seal will not seat properly which may cause leaks or poor performance. Best to use a used seal to test it out first before popping an expensive new seal in if that's your plan

There is a youtuber named "Butter suspension" as he does an excellent step by step rebuild on a Bomber Z1 which is near identical to the Z2 except the Z1 has a damper on each lower where the Z2 only has one. He uses a downhill tire lever to get extra leverage on the seal to pop it out. I have used a flat head screw driver that I have filed and round the edges on to prevent metal on metal damage. I also wrap an thin layer of duct tape to the flat head.

Edit:
1. is this metal bit actually part of the oil seal? - No, the seals are all rubber**correction** looks like there is a metal ring inside the rubber seal and part of the lower seal has bonded to the fork
2. will the scratches I made in the fork lower affect anything? Is the fork going to be perpetually leaky? The seal seating properly would be what I would keep an eye on. I believe there is a circlip that goes above that seal and as long as the groove for the circlip isn't damaged you might get the seal to stay put
3. how should I go about removing this stubborn oil seal? - Watch that Butter Suspension video. The guy is a suspension wizard

 

[SteezeMachine]

With that damage, you will run the risk that a new rubber seal will not seat properly which may cause leaks or poor performance. Best to use a used seal to test it out first before popping an expensive new seal in if that's your plan

There is a youtuber named "Butter suspension" as he does an excellent step by step rebuild on a Bomber Z1 which is near identical to the Z2 except the Z1 has a damper on each lower where the Z2 only has one. He uses a downhill tire lever to get extra leverage on the seal to pop it out. I have used a flat head screw driver that I have filed and round the edges on to prevent metal on metal damage. I also wrap an thin layer of duct tape to the flat head.

Edit:
1. is this metal bit actually part of the oil seal? - No, the seals are all rubber
2. will the scratches I made in the fork lower affect anything? Is the fork going to be perpetually leaky? The seal seating properly would be what I would keep an eye on. I believe there is a circlip that goes above that seal and as long as the groove for the circlip isn't damaged you might get the seal to stay put
3. how should I go about removing this stubborn oil seal? - Watch that Butter Suspension video. The guy is a suspension wizard

Do you think I could smooth out the metal bit with some fine sandpaper so it sits properly? The clip notch is in good condition btw

 

[90's Ninja]

I wouldn't do any sanding unless you are going to be meticulous in cleaning out the lowers afterwards. Best to avoid making metal dust and just get a flat head screw driver or other metal tool to press down flat those peaks and high points on the metal lip. Doing that will take the least amount of time and after you seat the seal and install the circlip over it, play around with the seal and see if there is play. If there is, its time to shop around for a new fork

 

[SteezeMachine]

I wouldn't do any sanding unless you are going to be meticulous in cleaning out the lowers afterwards. Best to avoid making metal dust and just get a flat head screw driver or other metal tool to press down flat those peaks and high points on the metal lip. Doing that will take the least amount of time and after you seat the seal and install the circlip over it, play around with the seal and see if there is play. If there is, its time to shop around for a new fork

Alright, thank you!

 

[SteezeMachine]

Also, if anyone knows how I can remove the bomber bushing with the seal seat in the way, please tell me!

 

[dyna-ti]

Also, if anyone knows how I can remove the bomber bushing with the seal seat in the way, please tell me!

Cant, you need the seal out, as there a lip on top of the bushing thats hidden by the seal.
Its been a long time since I swopped out seals on a bomber, but i seem to remember theres a large washer, which i now think is under the oil seal between that and the bushing.

Im trying to remember the order
Dust seal - some sort of large spring circlip thing, then the oil seal, then a large flat washer, then the oil seal. - I'll see if i can find an explodeed diagram ...

... yeah found something for the Z1 bam(which is the same as the Z2 bam)

https://public-repository.org/marzocchi/1998_Z1_Z.1_Bam_-_exploded.pdf

From this source -

Public Marzocchi Documentation Repository - PMDR

This Public Repository contains Documents about most Marzocchi Forks from about 1989 – 2018. In Q3/2021 FOX/Marzocchi droped all support for Marzocchi Forks up to 2018 without a single note. That suckz! Show lessAll have been collected from the ...

public-repository.org

How i got them out was a took a long heavy duty flat screwdriver, and the part thats going to rest against the lip i wrapped duct tape around a dozen times to act as a cushion.
Then with the flat part of the blade under the edge of the seal, i placed my knee at the back of the fulcrum point and pulled on the leg while pulling on the screwdriver. Its going to pop out quite fast.. Same type of action as if you are trying to break a stick, if you know what i mean.

First one I did the seal popped out, flew across the room and bounced off my nice cream curtains leaving an oily mark

I cant really see from the pic where the damage is, but if it is at the top at the lip where the dust seal sits, then that is not a problem and is going to affect nothing. The dust seal only keeps out dust, its the inner oil seal that seals the leg.

JUST REMEMBERED SOMETHING

I put the entire lower legs in the freezer for a couple of hours as the rubber of the seal shrinks. Same goes when fitting a new oil seal. you put them in the freezer too and they go in easier.

Fitting the new seal. I used a length of plastic pipe(I think it was a bit of plumbing pipe), and sanded one end down so it fitted into the diameter of the lowers. That i used to hammer home the seal to it was fully seated.

TIP - MAKE SURE YOU PUT THE BIG FLAT WASHER IN ON TOP OF THE BUSHING BEFORE PUTTING IN THE NEW OIL SEAL. or you're going to have to remove it again

 

[SteezeMachine]

Cant, you need the seal out, as there a lip on top of the bushing thats hidden by the seal.
Its been a long time since I swopped out seals on a bomber, but i seem to remember theres a large washer, which i now think is under the oil seal between that and the bushing.

Im trying to remember the order
Dust seal - some sort of large spring circlip thing, then the oil seal, then a large flat washer, then the oil seal. - I'll see if i can find an explodeed diagram ...

... yeah found something for the Z1 bam(which is the same as the Z2 bam)

https://public-repository.org/marzocchi/1998_Z1_Z.1_Bam_-_exploded.pdf

From this source -

Public Marzocchi Documentation Repository - PMDR

This Public Repository contains Documents about most Marzocchi Forks from about 1989 – 2018. In Q3/2021 FOX/Marzocchi droped all support for Marzocchi Forks up to 2018 without a single note. That suckz! Show lessAll have been collected from the ...

public-repository.org

How i got them out was a took a long heavy duty flat screwdriver, and the part thats going to rest against the lip i wrapped duct tape around a dozen times to act as a cushion.
Then with the flat part of the blade under the edge of the seal, i placed my knee at the back of the fulcrum point and pulled on the leg while pulling on the screwdriver. Its going to pop out quite fast.. Same type of action as if you are trying to break a stick, if you know what i mean.

First one I did the seal popped out, flew across the room and bounced off my nice cream curtains leaving an oily mark

I cant really see from the pic where the damage is, but if it is at the top at the lip where the dust seal sits, then that is not a problem and is going to affect nothing. The dust seal only keeps out dust, its the inner oil seal that seals the leg.

JUST REMEMBERED SOMETHING

I put the entire lower legs in the freezer for a couple of hours as the rubber of the seal shrinks. Same goes when fitting a new oil seal. you put them in the freezer too and they go in easier.

Fitting the new seal. I used a length of plastic pipe(I think it was a bit of plumbing pipe), and sanded one end down so it fitted into the diameter of the lowers. That i used to hammer home the seal to it was fully seated.

TIP - MAKE SURE YOU PUT THE BIG FLAT WASHER IN ON TOP OF THE BUSHING BEFORE PUTTING IN THE NEW OIL SEAL. or you're going to have to remove it again

Wow, thanks for all the tips and information! So I remove the seal’s metal seat just like the rubber seal? I’m not sure I can lever it out without bending its lip (which Ive already done…).

 

[SteezeMachine]

I don’t know if this helps, but I thought it wouldn’t hurt to put here:

Circled in red is the metal seal seat I’m talking about
Circled in blue is the washer that’s hiding the bushing access
And circled in yellow of course is the bushing

I’m totally stumped about how I’m supposed to remove the seal seat, and I really wasn’t expecting to encounter it. I watched a video dissecting a very similar bomber z2 and the guy’s fork didn’t have this feature, just a rubber seal that was popped out with a screwdriver.

I’m very confused right now, so sorry if my babbling is incoherent

 

[90's Ninja]

Ok, I think I see the problem, the red highlighted section is part of the lower rubber seal. The outter rubber has bonded to the alloy. Try taking needle nose pliers to it and see if its malleable enough to peel off small sections at a time. Go slow and maybe apply heat with a heat gun or hair dryer.